Why is socialism viewed so negatively in politics and media?

[Vix150]

Why do people not like socialism?

To me it doesn't seem disastrous but it's portrayed in the media as a horrific way for a society to run.

Any thoughts?

The Argentinians invaded - against the will of the people living there who consider themselves British.
There is a reason her popularity went up after she responded to this - but it wasn't her starting a war for popularity, which is what you claimed.

You know nothing about the falklands war. So why are you talking about it?

Is that the limit of your ability to debate what it was like to live through the 70s and 80s?

The monopoly of the supply of glasses and the price of them was doubly outrageous for the working class. It was Thatcher who made glasses affordable.

Another example of why the left is viewed negatively! I hated That her but it does noone any favours to pretend they don't know why she was popular. It was working class support that kept her in power.

You don’t actually believe that? Thatcher: made us sitting targets for nuclear war, sold off our assets, destroyed British industry, mobilised the police (and soldiers dressed as police) against the workers, sold off social housing, let share holders profit from things, we the state owned, cut the navy causing Argentinian invasion of Falklands, brought in section 28, talked of immigrants swarming in, empowered Britain’s version of ICE to beat up Black kids, like Hitler she hated the avant garde, put the women’s movement back, failed to respond to AIDS crisis… the woman was a disaster. Ever wondered why there’s no industry in this country? That was her. Ever wondered why we work stupid long hours and are over employed? Her. She called it “efficiency” to treat people like shit. I will tell you one thing she stopped short off though, privatisation of education, she left that to her spawn Blair. Hateful woman who would do anything to kick the workers. This is why everyone is ill, sad, stressed and unfulfilled today.

I clearly know more than you. She was in the middle of a cutting exercise and considering handling back Hong Kong, Gibraltar and Falklands. She enabled the invasion. The war was only won by a smidge based on luck not her expertise. She was mainly incredibly lucky and things went right for her. But it didn’t last because she was evil to her own party as well as us.

When does “popular” mean good though? Hitler was popular? The Sun is popular. Farage is (now not so) Popular, Trump is popular ( presumably?) . Strikes me that popular politicians are a disaster.

That all sounds awful, but then I never did like being poor. I wanted better.

Yes of course I believe that it was Thatcher who removed the Optician stranglehold on being able to supply glasses, because she did.

It is the weakest of weak thinking to believe that because you don't like a person or you believe that they did a lot wrong, they cannot possibly have done anything right.

She enabled the invasion to take people’s mind off a failing economy and her falling polls. You don’t see any parallels between her and Trump? Never, ever underestimate the vindictiveness of the ruling classes.

Which politician do you think is good?

What a silly point - when someone reaches for Hitler they usually know it too. Trump is not particularly popular actually, his ratings are tanking. Democratic elections are won by the party with the most votes. Something that requires a level of popularity for the people and policies of that party. My point was about the silliness of the left in not analysing why she was popular. I disagreed with most of what she did, and certainly her overall ethos but I recognise why some of it appealed to the population at that time.

Industry was changing anyway due to globalisation. The ship building Industry on the Tyne for example can never come back due to the lack of deep water docks.

Yes and mining was going to soon be environmentally unsound but she provided no alternatives, she wasn’t interested in the future she just wanted to kill the unions.

Well the Big Bang happened in the 80s. So that was an alternative. We became a services led country. Thatcher couldn't just magic a new industry out of thin air. We had to find something with which we could compete with the rest of the world. That wasn't the old industries unfortunately as things like ship building can be done cheaper, better and faster in places like China.

Reducing union power was vital to attracting investment and for the economy to boom. We came out of the period of relentless strikes. Something the current government has forgotten. Overly strong unions are not good for the country. It's a balance to be struck.

Sorry but that’s all ideological clap trap that I’ve heard a million times. And none of those things brought ordinary people job security, health care or freedom of worry. If Thatcherism worked why is everyone so stressed and sad? Why is this forum so full of women worried sick about their mentality ill kids? It’s no way to live. We were all expendable to her. She proved it at Orgreave, Hillsborough, Wapping. She fucking HATED the organised working classes.

Its not "ideological claptrap". Strikes cost millions. Look at the current doctors strikes and how much it costs the NHS. And globalisation led to the hollowing out of manufacturing. They are just the facts unfortunately.

"why is everyone so stressed and sad" Thatcherism was over a long time ago. We have had a few government's since then. This current one being particularly bad.

Thatcher resigned 36 years ago. Over a third of a century. The coalition government was far more destructive in recent times and relevant to our predicament now, in terms of dismantling the state.

Agreed. And Blair.

I don't agree that Blair was destructive. I didn't agree with everything at the time and with hindsight not everything has stood the test of time but the achievements of that government were transformational.

It was easy for New Labour to be transformational. They inherited a stable economy from the Conservatives with low levels of national debt and low inflation.

I read an article recently that described the New Labour project as "a sugar rush politics that lasted as long as the taps of the Treasury could be kept on."

And I agree with PP on the changes they have made to the inner workings of government leaving us now with problematic levels of productivity in the civil service.

Well, in my defence, i was replying to a poster with very right wing entrenched views.....

But i'll address your points:

No i don't blame the Tories for everything, though tbf i cannot really think of anything good they ve done either.
Both parties cut defence but it was the Tories who were in power when Russia took Crimea and then tried again in Ukraine, they never increased defence spend even after these actions.
Blair never fixed Social Care, never built Council housing, never fixed dentistry, roads never invested in.... all though made worse after 2010 and Austerity.

Uncontrolled Immigration under Blair did take place but it was almost all from Europe, didn't bring all their dependents, easy to integrate & many have returned, though we don't know how many as we don't record this but given eastern european booming economies, a great deal have.

The Tories, after 2020, allowed in many more times the numbers Blair did but from SE Asia, Africa, all bought dependents, zero chance they'll go home

I don't agree we are un governable, we have certainly decided that many crimes are no longer treated as such, thats true but the reasons for much of our decline, imho, is the lack of public services, we are all paying for services that are so poor, they might as well not exist.

I can't comment on what system of Govt Blair helped introduce, i'm not aware he did such a thing.

How short people's memories are! Its NEVER easy for Labour full stop and its never easy for any government to be transformational. Its amazing how people take the achievements of that government for granted

Tax dodgers cost millions (billions) . Actually you’re right I actually don’t know why people are so miserable. I think we’re back at the right wing media winding people up about immigration and dividing the people. I mean I get why people in deindustrialised areas feel angry and vote reform but just as with Moseley, Farage is mobilising them with flags, racism and misogyny. Look, for the record, I know you can have bad socialism and good capitalism. My husband ( quite a bit older than me) had his foundation degree and B Ed sponsored by Cadburys for instance. Blair and Brown’s government paid for a bursary for me to do teacher training and Brown’s CTF is funding my DS through university. Or helping enormously anyway. But I won’t stand around listening to how Thatcher did anything but harm and division. I was there , saw what it was like before, during and after. She was a disaster- nearly as bad as Brexit.

There was some good and not good for that gov. A lot of Thatcher’s approach was kept by Blair and Cameron but Blair added his own approach.

He didn’t go against a pretty free economy, or impose higher taxes, he knew the private sector had to flourish and I recall in a recent interview the one thing he wanted to do was prove Labour didn’t have to hold people back.

It’s different to Starmer and now, and even Blair has criticised on those fronts. And was pretty far from socialism in terms of onerous control from a state.

The holding people back, hammering SMEs and control are what people are reacting to now rather than during Blair’s time.