Iran and the western left?

[rickyrickygrimes]

Can someone explain the background to this? I keep reading snippets online but I can’t get my head around comments like this:

‘It is striking how few of those who most loudly called for a ‘Free Palestine’ are now calling for a ‘Free Iran’

is it as simple as Gaza = Islam, therefore Islam = good? But Iran also = Islam, but clearly in this case Islam = bad?

genuine question.

Or is it because the western left is anti-capitalism and therefore aligns itself with any other anti-capitalist forces in the world - like the Islamic republic in Iran? Who they see as preventing capitalists taking over in Iran? They can’t be that blinkered, can they? 🤷‍♀️

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

Unfortunately, despite being Westerners themselves, they see the West as the enemy. And their feelings for Hamas and Iran's regime follow from that. (Pretty sure those feelings are one way, but they'll never need to put that to the test, safe in their western democracies...)

The interesting question is how and when such self-abnegation became so entrenched. And by whom, and to what end.

So:

My / me = western, Palestinian supporting, socialist worker buying, left leaning person

My enemy = Israel? US? Capitalist ideology?

Enemy of my enemy = my friend = Islam / islamists / Islamic government? Socialist ideology?

is that the thinking?

Hamas and Hezbollah are kind of ‘good’ if they are supporting the Palestinians in Gaza, so that excuses their propping up / enabling / supporting a brutal regime in Iran?

can’t these people hold more than one thought in their head at any one time?

That's certainly how it seems to me.

@rickyrickygrimes

You're comparing Bananas with Elephants as if they were the same thing.

Please explain, I am genuinely trying to understand the comments I've read - such as the one above. like the specific criticism directed at someone like Jeremy Corbyn or Greta Thunberg for not protesting / not shouting loud enough for the Iranian protestors.

You mean that the Gaza / Palestine 'issue' and the Iran protests 'issue' are not related or similar at all? So people can protest one and be silent on the other, and that's okay? (I'm not disagreeing btw - just trying to understand where the criticism of people who do this comes from).

@rickyrickygrimes

I mean exactly that; the two are not really comparable.

If the Iranians were suppressing particular ethnic groups within their country, starving them and bombing them back to the Stone Age then the situation would be comparable.

So far as I can see the situation in Iran is more one of a popular uprising similar to the one that unseated the Shah in 1979.

You might find this article on the hypocrisy interesting

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/cfd8b674df67b834

The omnicause deems America, Israel and the capitalist world as the epitome of Westernness, the fount of all evil, guilty of every “ism” and “cide”, and thus promotes and supports third worldist regimes and causes that undermine our societies. It is nihilistic and shape-changing, embracing any doctrine that advances its ends, regardless of contradictions.

This is why so few Western activists support Iran’s freedom-fighters. These dissidents are pro-freedom, pro-America and pro-democracy. They curse Hamas and Hezbollah,and demand the end to Tehran’s handouts to its proxies, anathema to our useful idiots.

Meanwhile Iran is hanging people from cranes in the public square and beat women to death for not covering their hair properly.

Hmm, I can see exactly why Jeremy Corbyn feels no need to censure them.

I think the Western Left DO support the Iran protestors. They're just less vociferous about it. I think there are at least a couple of reasons for this.

1. Free Palestine has a long and visible history as a 'cause' on the Left, unlike any kind of 'Free Iran' campaign. It's not a well branded bandwagon that already exists that everyone can jump on and that reaffirms their identity as one of the in crowd.
2. The barely concealed (and sometimes explicit) support for Hamas/Hezbollah as 'freedom fighters' against Israel makes condemning the Iranian government feel a little bit awkward at the moment.
3. A part of the outrage on Israel/Palestine issue is because they see it as white ppl/the West oppressing brown people/Arabs (Jews don't count btw) so the Iranian situation is of less interest to them because it doesn't fit into the colonial white supremacist oppressor narrative.

OP, I think the answer is clear. Israel is not directly involved in the Iranian protests and government massacre so there’s no need for Western socialists to get involved.

They're probably still trying to find some way to blame the Jews for the Iranian Islamist government's oppression and massacres of their population.

After all, they've convinced themselves that Hamas murdering Gazan civilians for being gay - or for opposing them politically - is Israel's fault, so why not Iran?

Watch this space...

Women are rising up against religious control and some on the left will turn away from that.

And other reasons below.

I have no idea what the western left say about Iran, but this clip from the Telegraph appears a bit out to me. " These dissidents are pro-freedom, pro-America and pro-democracy. They curse Hamas and Hezbollah,and demand the end to Tehran’s handouts to its proxies, anathema to our useful idiots.".

I don't know what the western left are saying because I am in a country that like Iran, is at the bottom of the tables for internet freedom.

And this is something I keep seeing disregarded all over. Iran is effectively a closed country, more closed than where I am. And when there is very little western media, pro-America and pro-democracy, is not really going to be a massive widespread thing. At least not something that can be accurately gauged.

Because think about it. Twitter, facebook, BBC etc all banned. And there is no point saying "get a VPN' because they are banned too. And how to get a VPN anyway, because the VPN sites are blocked, the payment system is separate so people can't just google VPN and pay for it.

Not easily anyway.

And on top of social media, there is state controlled news media to consider too. Iranians can't just switch their TVs to see what Trump is saying on Fox. The Regime in Iran control what people can watch.

So, I have no comment really on what western left are saying, because when I say I have no idea what they are saying, it's because its not easy to read what they are saying.

And all these things above might lead to a skewed view of Iran, and what the people think, because the view into Iran via western social media is going to be very narrow. Especially if sat dishes are being smuggled in.

It's not as if the regime faithful are using a sat dish to log into twitter to let the west know what they think. No, the people doing that are the pro democracy folk, so it skews the picture.

Corbyn hasn't been silent, he just hasn't been reported....

I am appalled by the killing of protesters across Iran in recent days. The Iranian people have the right to demonstrate peacefully and have their voices heard, without fear of violent repression at home or intervention from abroad

The people of Iran, and only the people of Iran, must determine their own future

He has talked about this across different platforms, a simple google search would have shown you this... if you re that bothered...

Its like a leading Tory on R4 yesterday, blasting the BBC for NOT reporting demo's/killings in Iran... but they have, across all outlets, TV Radio, national and world service, since they began.

Just stirring up division, no real interest in Iran.

The difference between the 2, as you asked, is Israel is backed and armed by the West, uses our weapons to kill 70,000 people and even after the so called ceasefire, IDF has killed a further 500 (approx) people, Western Govt's silent as are the pro Israeli lobby...

Gazan deaths? Don't matter... but Iranian ones do..... oh really.

We also have no influence over Iran, we wont even ban the IRGC, despite them being a known security threat here, PA is... why is that?

The Iranian regime do suppress minority ethnic groups within the country. They've starved people to death in prison, along with expansive other tortures, and they supply weapons to groups like Hezbollah, Hamas and the Houthis who in their turn use these weapons to attack civilians. They also propped Assad up as he murdered Syrians in their thousands. Iranian regime interference within the region has killed so many innocent people.

The Iranian regime also admit to have killed 2000 in this round of protests, over the last 3 weeks. This is is a higher daily death rate than even Hamas claim has occurred in Gaza.

But people don't know this. Your post is a good example of that.

It is, yours is a good post.

That is a fair point that the Iranians I know left Iran for the UK - some as young people after 1979, some more recently - which is a self-selecting group. They have family still there, but they are urban middle class: whose opinions won't be completely representative. I know that previous protests against the oppressive theocratic regime - such as following the police murder of the young Kurdish Iranian woman for not wearing a headscarf in 2022 - were mainly in the cities, whereas it seems that these protests are more wide-spread.

Should also be remembered, despite their so called concern, its those on the right ie Tories and Reform that are promising to deport ALL cross channel migrants, regardless of where they come from or any claim to asylum... from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Afghanistan... etc ... including women and children.

So please spare me the faux outrage

I've noticed some of the dregs of the far right as well as the far left showing their arses on this issue, usually because of Israel/Jews. It's a horseshoe issue in that respect. Reminds me of Ukraine, and of course the Iranian regime is allied to Putin.

It’s totally consistent to:

• be outraged at the Tehran regime’s behaviour, and
• want to stop the cross-channel asylum route.

I think there are much more humane and cost-effective ways of selecting and supporting refugees and asylum seekers. Surely that doesn’t mean I should be indifferent about Tehran.

(Neither a Tory nor a Reform supporter, but I don’t think they need to be indifferent about Tehran either).

Labour have pretty much ended asylum for women and children as they won’t meet criteria to get in. Not much about that of course.

And it still doesn’t excuse the lack of care from some about the Iranian people.

Of course but a blanket ban on ALL X ch migrants, regardless circumstances, with no other means to reach say family already here, is not showing concern for Iranian people at all.
Because what it "could" mean is an Iranian woman who manages to get her to be with Iranian parents or indeed her adult children is sent back....

Both Badenoch and Farage have said is "No exceptions..."

As for anyone who things sending back asylum seekers to Iran, Afghanistan etc, well thats beyond the pale.

To the pp.... there is no such ban on women and children getting asylum BUT if there was, surely they'd be in total support of that, given previous views on migrants.

Who’s ‘they’ in that last post?

Don’t engage if you are avoiding that. I’m for that agreement. Stick to your scrolling on by 😬

I am left-wing, so part of the western left I guess, although I'm more interested in domestic than foreign policy and don't spend my life pontificating on social media.

I can only speak for myself, because funnily enough people who are left-wing are not a hive mind who agree on everything:

1. Israel is a western style democracy with a range of views within its own domestic politics and freedom of speech etc. I do not attend pro-Palestinian protests, but I can see that there is mileage in encouraging a country like that to adhere to democratic norms and international law.
2. Whilst I'd love Iran to become a secular, democratic state, once bitten, twice shy. We were told that Iraqis and Afghans would jump at the chance to be democratic and westernised- and even you must see where that led. Last time there were protests in Iran that got rid of the Shah and were supported by the 'Western Left', instead of democracy the Iranians got theocracy. Not exactly a great track record and western intervention doesn't really seem to help much.