Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Politics

Right-wingers think Churchill is a villain?

38 replies

MsAmerica · 27/12/2025 00:42

Is this widespread? This was news to me. I'm no historian, but I've always considered him heroic. He was a well-experienced politician when he became Prime Minister, and apart from the specifics of the war, he did wonders marshaling the spirit of the British people.

Why the Far Right Hates Churchill
The accepted historical narrative of the past 80 years—that it was morally right for the U.S. and the U.K. to fight and destroy the Third Reich—is now under assault.
WSJ
By Andrew Roberts

The American podcaster Darryl Cooper—who has never written a history book, let alone one about World War II, but whom Tucker Carlson calls “America’s most honest historian”—has claimed that it was Churchill’s fault that the war escalated from the limited one that Adolf Hitler apparently wanted when he invaded Poland in September 1939. According to Cooper, Churchill was the “chief villain” of World War II, rather than any of the more obvious suspects.

There are a number of problems with this theory, not least chronological. Churchill did not even enter the British government until two days after the Nazis’ invasion of Poland. Even then he was not in control of British decision-making, as he did not become prime minister until after Hitler had unleashed his blitzkrieg on Western Europe in May 1940.

Nonetheless, tens of millions of people have downloaded Cooper’s ahistoric tripe, and the British neo-Nazi historian David Irving tweeted, “Glad we are in the mainstream narrative, but would be nice to get a credit,” which got over a quarter of a million views and over five thousand “likes.”

Joe Rogan, the world’s most popular podcaster, has similarly opened the door to extreme revisionism, saying that “Darryl [Cooper] has some of the most nuanced, balanced and charitable views on all the figures in history,” which is true only if he means the Nazis....

So why is the ultraright targeting Churchill?

In the simplest terms, it is because his practical aims and principles as a leader of the West were directly opposed to the new strain of isolationism in America and Britain...

“The reason I resent Churchill so much for it,” Cooper told Carlson, “is that he kept this war going when he had no way [of winning]. He had no way to go back and fight this war. All he had was bombers…just rank terrorism.” More than that, once Hitler ripped up yet another treaty and invaded Russia in June of 1941, Churchill immediately made common cause with Stalin against Nazi Germany.

It is worth considering what might have happened had Churchill not urged these fateful choices. If Britain had remained neutral in the West and refrained from bombing Germany, Hitler would have been able to concentrate his entire Luftwaffe against Russia. Instead he had to hold back 30% of it to guard against Churchill’s bombers.

Neutrality in the face of Hitler would have meant that the 5,000 aircraft and 7,000 tanks and 51 million pairs of boots and the rest of the aid that Britain and America sent the U.S.S.R. would not have materialized. Nor would the invasion of Normandy have taken place while the Russians and Germans were fighting in Belarus.

Which leads to the obvious: With either Hitler or Stalin controlling all of Europe between Paris and Minsk, the world—including America—would have been in a vastly worse place than the one that Churchill and Roosevelt helped to fashion in 1945.

In his peroration in the Westminster Abbey speech, Churchill said, “The only guide to a man is his conscience; the only shield to his memory is the rectitude and sincerity of his actions. It is very imprudent to walk through life without this shield, because we are so often mocked by the failure of our hopes and the upsetting of our calculations; but with this shield, however the fates may play, we always march in the ranks of honor.”

Despite the best efforts of his revisionist detractors, Churchill marches there still.

For the complete article:
https://www.wsj.com/politics/why-the-far-right-hates-churchill-20fdc710?msockid=03cbec21bc9a656f2158faedbde56472

OP posts:
MsAmerica · 10/01/2026 22:10

Catholica · 27/12/2025 00:55

This is part of the American far right’s support for Nazism- sometimes implied sometimes explicit. It’s incredible me that this is where we are but it is the case.

I’d strongly encourage anyone on the left or centre not to help them along by criticising Churchill from the left. He definitely got a lot of things wrong- that’s the nature of leadership. He got the main thing right though.

Well, I'm certainly not criticizing Churchill.

First of all, I'm not knowledgeable enough to criticize him intelligently.

But how could I not like a guy who napped daily?

OP posts:
MsAmerica · 10/01/2026 22:13

slug · 29/12/2025 18:10

Churchill vehemently opposed the vote for women.
As a Kiwi I’m well aware that much of the slaughter of Gallipoli can ultimately be laid at his feet. He was the Lord of the Admiralty at the time.

He’s not a hero to everyone

I can't think of anyone who is a hero to everyone, forever.

OP posts:
MsAmerica · 10/01/2026 22:14

Needtosoundoffandbreathe · 29/12/2025 18:21

There are obvious parallels with what is going on in Ukraine now and the US not wanting to be drawn in as it was in WWII. Also the US not wanting to poke the Russian bear by declaring Putin its enemy. It makes sense then that those who support Trump would espouse this view of Churchill. I don't know what can be done about the current situation and it's very worrying.

Well, the big parallel is how Trump parallels Hitler.

OP posts:
ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/01/2026 22:18

My very left wing parents were conscripted in WW2. They and all their relatives hated him. Intensely.

Whrn l was little in the 60’s, family get together always involved a discussion of how they loathed him.

HelenaWilson · 10/01/2026 22:54

My very left wing parents were conscripted in WW2. They and all their relatives hated him. Intensely.

Conscription was introduced in 1939, before Churchill became Prime Minister. They would have been conscripted whoever was PM.

As a Kiwi I’m well aware that much of the slaughter of Gallipoli can ultimately be laid at his feet. He was the Lord of the Admiralty at the time.

First Lord of the Admiralty, yes, by which he had the authority to direct Naval forces. The First Lord of the Admiralty has or had no power to deploy land forces. That would be a decision for the Secretary of State for War (Kitchener, at the time) and the Cabinet.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/01/2026 23:15

HelenaWilson · 10/01/2026 22:54

My very left wing parents were conscripted in WW2. They and all their relatives hated him. Intensely.

Conscription was introduced in 1939, before Churchill became Prime Minister. They would have been conscripted whoever was PM.

As a Kiwi I’m well aware that much of the slaughter of Gallipoli can ultimately be laid at his feet. He was the Lord of the Admiralty at the time.

First Lord of the Admiralty, yes, by which he had the authority to direct Naval forces. The First Lord of the Admiralty has or had no power to deploy land forces. That would be a decision for the Secretary of State for War (Kitchener, at the time) and the Cabinet.

And? They still fucking hated him. They called him a warmonger. They didn’t hold a party to moan about the fact that he wasn’t pm for the 5 months before when they were conscripted.

They moaned about him because they hated him. End of.

What was the point of that? Like l made it up?
2 uncles injured at Battle for Monte Christo, Df in Desert Rats for 6 years where he had to kill people which ruined his life for ever. You fucking bet they hated him. Aunt had illegal abortion because she didn’t know if her husband would survive. They loathed him.

And you nit pick about when Churchill was pm.

Aparecium · 11/01/2026 09:13

Needtosoundoffandbreathe · 29/12/2025 18:21

There are obvious parallels with what is going on in Ukraine now and the US not wanting to be drawn in as it was in WWII. Also the US not wanting to poke the Russian bear by declaring Putin its enemy. It makes sense then that those who support Trump would espouse this view of Churchill. I don't know what can be done about the current situation and it's very worrying.

There are obvious parallels to what is going on now with Greenland. The American far right want us to believe that one country invading another is an internal matter, and that it is unreasonable for allies of the invaded country to go to war in their defence.

Needtosoundoffandbreathe · 11/01/2026 11:41

MsAmerica · 10/01/2026 22:14

Well, the big parallel is how Trump parallels Hitler.

It does look as though mirroring Putin is his choice of behaviour now.

MsAmerica · 12/01/2026 21:15

Needtosoundoffandbreathe · 11/01/2026 11:41

It does look as though mirroring Putin is his choice of behaviour now.

I so hope that someday we'll find out what the hell is going on between the two of them. There's a general feeling - to which I subscribe - that Putin has had some hold over Trump, to blackmail him.

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 13/01/2026 12:22

MsAmerica · 12/01/2026 21:15

I so hope that someday we'll find out what the hell is going on between the two of them. There's a general feeling - to which I subscribe - that Putin has had some hold over Trump, to blackmail him.

Occams razor.

The simplest solution is that Donald Trump has been absolutely captivated by the image and power that Putin projects. And in one of those meetings that only men can have, Putin flattered the Orange one and told him that he had all it needed to be the American version of Putin. All that power. All that glory.

"All you need to do, Donald" would have been the pitch "is to do what I have done - it's easy. Don't worry I will show you how".

And that was that. With a selected cabal of Putinistas in place (your Bannons, Musks, etc) to confirm to Trump that whatever he has done "is working" and you can pretty much explain the past few years.

The best assets for security services are the ones that don't realise they are assets. It makes their protestations of innocence more believable.

MsAmerica · 15/01/2026 23:34

SerendipityJane · 13/01/2026 12:22

Occams razor.

The simplest solution is that Donald Trump has been absolutely captivated by the image and power that Putin projects. And in one of those meetings that only men can have, Putin flattered the Orange one and told him that he had all it needed to be the American version of Putin. All that power. All that glory.

"All you need to do, Donald" would have been the pitch "is to do what I have done - it's easy. Don't worry I will show you how".

And that was that. With a selected cabal of Putinistas in place (your Bannons, Musks, etc) to confirm to Trump that whatever he has done "is working" and you can pretty much explain the past few years.

The best assets for security services are the ones that don't realise they are assets. It makes their protestations of innocence more believable.

You may well be right, but it just seems like there's something more sinister going on.

OP posts:
Wizeman · 16/01/2026 01:01

Thatonenight · 27/12/2025 00:44

Churchill starved millions of Indian civilians during ww2 this isn’t taught in schools. I only found out not that long ago. He isn’t this great hero that we all thought he was. I still don’t understand why the ultra right would think that though.

Oh no the far right thinks Churchill is a villain, also the far left thinking Churchill is bad. This proves the left is just as bad lol. No one knows there history.

Churchill has the power to control the weather? and then uses that power to cause crop failures in its own territory. And chooses to do it at a time when he needs Indian support more than ever as there is a war in that territory and India is not keen on British rule.

Oh well it doesn't matter because we can just continue importing rice from Burma.

The Japanese invade Burma.

1 million people flee from the Japanese brutality/Burma and flood into India.

Ok no problem we can just ship India supplies

Japan creates a navel blockade and sinks 100,000 tons of merchant shipping in the bay of Bengal.

Ok but Britain has have the best navy in the world! breakthrough?

Commander-in-Chief of the army in India, the War Office in London and the commander of the British Eastern Fleet acknowledged that the fleet was powerless to mount serious opposition to Japanese naval attacks on Ceylon, southern or eastern India, or on shipping in the Bay of Bengal.

Holy fuck, ok we have no choice but to share the limited domestically produced food sources we have.

Indian provinces and princely states: I don't want any risk of famine in my state all inter-provincial trade of rice and wheat is banned!

There was already a lack of food but now there are no rice imports, the domestic production is no longer being shared evenly and there are even more mouths to feed.

It's a horrible devastating situation but at least it cannot possibly get any worse...

The winter rice crop is afflicted by a severe outbreak of fungal brown spot disease.

Fuck

And then a cyclone and three storm surges ravaged croplands, 7,400 villages were partly or wholly destroyed, and standing flood waters remained for weeks in at least 1,600 villages. Cholera, dysentery and other waterborne diseases flourished. 527,000 houses and 1,900 schools were lost, over 1,000 square miles of the most fertile paddy land in the province was entirely destroyed, and the standing crop over an additional 3,000 square miles was damaged

The storm also dispersed high levels of fungal spores across the region and increasing the spread of the crop disease. The fungus reduced the crop yield even more than the cyclone

This is just unbelievable.

The world: Churchill this is your fault!

Japan: yeah Churchill your fault!

Well thank god that's all history and we live in the 21st century where people give their time and money to make sure it does not happen again...

  • 85,000 dead in the 2016 Yemen famine
  • 285,000 dead in the 2011 East Africa drought
  • 2.7 million dead in the 1998-2004 second Congo war (mostly killed by starvation and disease)

<a class="break-all" href="//[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal/_famine/_of/_1943](en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943#Provincial_trade_barriers)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943](en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943#Provincial_trade_barriers)

Does this change your mind lefties who blame Churchill for the famine?

Churchill is a hero

New posts on this thread. Refresh page