If Labour raises taxes what will you think?

[functioningagain]

Typing on my phone so not sure I can do a poll? But, if the government raises income tax or NI at the budget, will you think:

A - let’s get real, they had no other choice
B - those duplicitous / inept bastards

The markets won’t accept higher taxes without clear budgeted welfare cuts and long term as such.
Successful people and businesses do not operate in markets where they have to gross up the income of the most talented rain makers. It is just not how it works on the ground.

Rachel Reeves has to do what markets demand, not what anyone wants morally. We are at that point.

You are doing the same when you talk about lets just have a European system as if that is the simple answer.

It isn't a universally fair system and costs more to run.

Like other countries in Europe it is starting to feel the strain of an aging population and funding constraints. It's unlikely to be able to operate the same way in the future.

That last line is correct. Although Labour have created that problem.

@EasternStandard - tax experts have been saying for ages that the tax system itself is a huge inefficiency. So if she can make reforms there and convince people that it would create more efficiency and growth, that in itself could free up some money.
However, the behind targets on key drivers like housing is not great at all. Like companies, governments do get judged by financial markets on the promises they made. It is not just the electorate that matters anymore. It is how capitalism works.
If they are seen as “not delivered” and people start worrying about more political turmoil that also costs us all. So whatever she does decide, I hope it is credible this time and properly costed. I hope they bother listening to tax and financial experts and most importantly, I hope the Labour backbenchers and proper left wingers put long term health of the country above their own ideology.

Remember she’s a Fabian.

That could send high earners abroad. I agree broadly, but I’d just put 2p on basic rate and 3p on higher rate. Too many bands = unintended consequences. Remember GPs reducing their hours to stay under some tax trap at approx 100k?

Stop hammering the middle earners. Go after the millions doing nowt at the bottom and at the top.

Doing nowt at the bottom? 😂😂😂

Remember GPs reducing their hours to stay under some tax trap at approx 100k?

Previously they also had nhs consultants retiring early due to pension caps.

Maybe we need a General Strike once every 100 years to remind right-wingers what the millions at the bottom actually do.

I thought we all learnt the lesson during Covid when we were all reliant on people in low paid jobs keeping the wheels turning. Memories are painfully short.

Is not PP referring those who are not economically active rather than low paid? If so how would them going on strike differ from now?

Yes - I was referring to people that don't work - for absolutely no reason other than they can't be bothered and think work is something that other people do.

@angelos02 yes it was clear what you were referring to and a valid point.

Unemployment is up, despite a downward trend from 2015 to Q4 2024 when Labour increased the cost to employers. The greater the unemployment, the greater the welfare bill. That will increase the tax burden on the fewer that are working.

And to pay for the larger welfare bill, because of the increase in unemployment, will require higher taxes. The higher taxes will further slow the economy resulting in higher unemployment and higher welfare payments meaning taxes need to rise again

That said Labour policies are providing an excellent and over due reminder to the voters on how socialism simply doesn't work.

Same old Labour. Reward the non productive and tax the workers. Except those having multiple children they can't afford they'll be rewarded. At least we'll only have to suffer one term of this awful government and that dreadful Reeves woman.

Barry Gardiner of Labour stated today on BBC that the manifesto promise not to raise taxes was the wrong promise to make. However, he also stated that he would break the manifesto.

Every now and again it takes just one term of Labour to shake us all back to our senses and realise we didn't have it so bad after all. Life wasn't perfect, there were challenges, the previous government may have become complacent or made some mistakes, but sure as night follows day, Labour arrives to make it worse. It hands things back in a worse state than it took it on EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

The Tories fix it eventually, even if it's painful, and after a while we forget to be grateful for that and vote Labour back in again. Doh! Rinse and repeat.

@HeadDeskHeadDesk

Doh! Rinse and repeat.

Seems to be the case since 1979.

1979-1997 Conservatives win with 13.7M votes

1997-2010 Labour win with 13.5M votes

2010-2015 Conservative and Liberal coalition with 17.1M votes combined

2015-2024 Conservatives win with 11.3M votes

2024-???? Labour with with 9.7M votes, 0.5M fewer than in 2019

So, the winning parties are receiving fewer votes as time passes. Lower turnout and negative voting to vote out parties they don’t like as opposed to voting for the party they think is the best, being the most likely reasons. Another possibility is that voters assume a change is certain to result in things being better.

UK is bankrupt its mentally priming its citizens for an illegal war vs russia

Labour arrives to make it worse. It hands things back in a worse state than it took it on EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

It didn’t in 2010. It handed over a stable country with well functioning public services which Cameron’s government proceeded to slash and burn.

It depends entirely what you look at if you think the country is better or worse at any particular time.

Just to give the NHS as an illustration - in 2010 it had a 70% satisfaction rating, it was 21% when the last government left power. It’s not subjective, there are actually statistics to prove some people’s views.

Alistair Darling didn't think it was stable in 2010, and he also wanted austerity. From the Guardian March 2010:-

'Alistair Darling admitted tonight that Labour's planned cuts to public services would be "deeper and tougher" than Margaret Thatcher's in the 1980s, as the country's leading experts on tax and spending warned that Britain faces "two parliaments of pain" to repair the black hole in the state's finances.'