If Labour raises taxes what will you think?

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Typing on my phone so not sure I can do a poll? But, if the government raises income tax or NI at the budget, will you think:

A - let’s get real, they had no other choice
B - those duplicitous / inept bastards

We need to reform funding for the NHS & social care, cut through the layers of non clinical staff, the executives & management & spend the money where it counts on the patients. We don't need some many individual health boards, just North, South, East & West England, Wales & Scotland, cut the costs of finance & administration so the money can be spent where it matters. A penny on income tax & VAT won't fill the black hole, it needs something bigger & bolder, a super tax on anyone earning over £500k a year increasing at bands of a million by 2%, bigger windfall taxes on banks, energy companies & big businesses.

My 87 year old mum is currently in hospital where she has been for 3 weeks with what started as a simple uti, when it first started I rang the doctors & without having to even speak to a doctor they just sent out 3 days antibiotics. Over the following week she became increasingly confused, not knowing day from night until she had a fall & we had to call the ambulance, she passed out in the ambulance & never woke up for 48 hours, when she woke up she told my brother she was going to stab every patient on the ward she was on & her confusion carried on in varying degrees right through the course of iv antibiotics, she had lost the ability to walk & was bedbound. 5 days later I got a phone call asking me if I was prepared to do all her personal care & if I was they were going to send her home that day. She had intensive physio & can now walk with a zimmer frame but is still having spells of confusion, this is a lady who 4 weeks ago was cleaning the windows, changing her own bed, cooking, washing & caring for herself & her home. There is going to be a meeting at the hospital with a social worker, my mum & family on Monday, I dread to think what kind of plan will be put in place, my mum has always made us promise to not put her in a home, I'm at the stage where I wish she could have a dose of pneumonia & slip away peacefully, I know she wouldn't want what is likely to be put in place. Mum & my dad worked hard to buy & make the home that she lives in to be able to leave it to me & my brother, but it is likely to be swallowed up in care fees, whatever happened to being cared for from the cradle to grave?

A. I just wish they'd done it sooner.
Yes, people would have moaned, but once they saw the benefits they'd stop minding the few quid off their wages. We can't expect better services without paying for them.

Only when they reach a certain point and we're not there yet.

I am sorry about your Mum, but this is really a case in point. 87 year olds are very expensive to care for. What would you like to happen now ?

They REALLY need to get control of welfare spending.

A, but it would be nice they ADMITTED that a lot of the debt it is to fund the lockdowns which they were cheering on while in opposition, and did not voice a single word of opposition to the way that children were treated.

A

Well quite. It's a bit silly to hold the lockdown debt against the Conservatives, as if it was just overspending in a normal year.

I'm so incredibly grateful that Labour weren't in power over covid.

I think a lot of pensioners could be paying more tax. A lot of my family (many business owners) will manage their tax affairs that they don’t pay huge amounts of tax. Easier to do when you are 70+ and not travelling, buying new cars or kitchens or funding families.

My in laws just got given the winter fuel allowance. Utterly utterly ridiculous. They are not in need of it in the slightest. But have this idea that they’ve paid in over their life and they deserve it. No they don’t! They already have an extremely comfortable life!

Likewise, we also need to attack the elephant in the room that the benefits bill is unsustainable. Too many people choose not to work. We should always support those in society that cannot or need extra support to work. But we should not be supporting those who choose to come to interviews, pretend to want a job and then disappear off the face of the earth when offered. For many people with mental health issues valuable work is helpful. A routine, pay, feeling like you are being useful. Employers need to be supported to take these people on. Do not make it harder for us.

A but I’ll still be grumpy about it

Agreed I find it strange when people say that 'the country is suffering after years of Conservative austerity, and services need to be rebuilt'.

Aa you say, public spending increased throughout the Conservative government. They just slowed the increase slightly.

Public spending - even at Conservative levels - is more than the UK can afford. It's more than half our GDP. Every year, the government spends more money on our behalf than we have left in the whole country to pay for everything else we buy for ourselves. And every year, we're getting more in debt - much faster now that Labour is in power.

It's not sustainable. Labour have shown they can't bring in even the tiniest amount of control, so there's going to be a pretty big crunch at some point. It's not going to be pretty.

Wow. I have heard these figures independently but it’s so o treating to see it here. Benefits reform and adjusting the triple lock would be my preferences. The debt payments need to be reduced

I agree that not all pensioners need the winter fuel allowance. But they pay tax on their pensions in the same way as everyone else does on their wages.

The parties have a tacit agreement of "ssssssh... we don't talk about lockdown, it never really happened". Heaven forbid that Tony Blair was in charge over covid: it would have been the ultimate nanny state thing for him, I bet he's sorry he missed out on being in charge of it.

Ik this is an oddly pro tax me more thread, or usually tax anyone else bar me more, but yes to this. It’s not a surprise.

They may have contributed but the majority did not contribute anyrhing like enough for what they have received. Vast numbers have final salary pensions for which they made very low or even zero contributions. The fact is they have taken more than their fare share from the economy.

I gave vastly more than I took for over 40 years and contributed to my occupational pension for the same period. Frankly, my dear, you’re talking out of your arse.

I has absolutely zero hope that labour could get a grip of the welfare bill. That’s not really their forte.

But they won’t.

Labour can’t and won’t do that.

They do have a choice, they can cut. They can make deep cuts. But they won't. I'm hoping for a bond market strike so the idiots can't borrow anymore.

"Vast numbers have final salary pensions for which they made very low or even zero contributions"
I don't think this can be held against people that received them.

It used to be common to offer
Final salary pensions, even non comtributary ones. It was a benefit to employees and something you took into account when deciding to go public Vs private sector.

These benefits have been cut to try both in the public and private sector and largely switched to DC pensions. It has been another form of pay cut for workers who now let's not forget need to work and benefits to survive.

Where? Public services are cut to the bone already as Reform councils are now discovering. It’s very easy to say, much harder to do.

Welfare, the public sector is massive, yet turns no profits. Go after boomer's pensions and social care and you'll get the wrath of the state crashing down on you. But none of that fits the ethos of being a socialist, so it'll never happen.

None of that fits the ethos of being a decent human being. It smacks of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.