Have we not learned that Appeasement doesn't work?

[StopRainingNow]

Appeasement a policy of making concessions to an aggressive power in order to avoid conflict. Before WW2 Chamberlain tried Appeasement with Hitler, it is basically emboldened Hitler into thinking he could do what he wanted.

And yet here we are, nearly 90 years later with Trump trying to do the same thing with Putin. It makes me so mad. Putin is not going to stop with getting some additional territory, he will move onto the next country, maybe Finland want to give him a bit of their land, or maybe Poland.

I'm so bloody cross that Trump is pushing this.

I agree it won't work and is actually dangerous

I always think how well Zelensky responds. He is in such a difficult situation that I suppose he has no option but to behave as a grownup. His whole country is relying on him to negotiate some sort of liveable solution.
He had to swallow his pride a lot which he does with grace if necessary. The contrast with Putin and Trump is stark. He must be beyond despairing in private

Yes, I have so much respect for Zelensky, he is in an impossible situation, especially with Trump thinking that he is the peacemaker. We should be learning from history, not Trumps ego and narcissistic tendencies.

It's not a black and white issue. Over 13k civilians have been killed since 2022 and total casualties including wounded are estimated to be around 400k. Ukraine's infrastructure has been badly affected and the effort to rebuild is going to take years and cost a fortune. It's also costing other countries billions in military support. We've spent billions.

Ideally we'd all storm in, assist Ukraine and send Russia packing. Ukraine could concede some land to bring about an end. We could amp up sanctions...there's no easy answer.

Hitler didn't possess nuclear weapons

That's the sole reason no country is trying to bolster Ukraine properly and march on moscow.

Nukes.

After studying History at university, ive learned when dealing with complex political strategies like appeasement, it is rarely a straightforward "one size fits all" scenario. The context of the time, the specific personalities involved, the economic conditions, and the geopolitical landscape all play crucial roles.

Just because appeasement failed with Hitler doesn't automatically mean it's doomed to fail in every situation. There are so many variables to consider

Every conflict and negotiation has its unique set of circumstances. History is full of shades of grey, not just black and white outcomes.

I agree with you Op, bullies only respond to strength, appeasement will never work with Putin but nukes are the worry!

Exactly! Thank you!

I can't figure it out - Is Trump so stupid he doesn't know about it, and are his aides too cowed to explain it? Putin's parallels to Hitler are just as pronounced as Trump's parallels to Hitler.

By the way, experts have predicted that if Putin gets Ukraine, his next move will into Moldova.

Zelensky is amazing. And even more amazing when one keeps in mind that his background isn't in politics, but in comedy.
Zelensky's self-control, when Trump attacked him so horrifyingly in the White House, was phenomenal.

I just read with horror that Sky News is saying that Zelensky "played that badly" in February!! How on earth could he have played that differently.

Yes Russia has nuclear weapons, so do we, it shouldn't mean that we can do anything we want. Appeasement may calm things for a short while, it will never allay an aggressive bully like Putin for long.

Appeasement will not end aggressive expansionism.

Appeasement has never brought about long term peace, the only advantage prior to WW2 was that it gave Britain time to build up arms.

Of course it also gave Germany the same, so its up for debate if this helped the Allies at all.

Well quite. It suits Putin to build back up again, and Trump will think "job done" and move on leaving Ukraine High and dry.

the thing is if russia truly mobilised then Ukraine would not last long.

Can I just offer a kind word for Chamberlain?
When Hitler took his troops into the Rhineland in 1936 we actually couldn’t have won a war. We needed time to rearm ourselves, time to build up the navy and RAF. Appeasement gave us that time.
Also our allies were not in a position to fight either, we would have stood completely alone if we had declared war any earlier than 1938.

sorry I know this isn’t the purpose of the thread, it’s just that I’m a history teacher and this period of history has been oversimplified to make it a moral story (easy to sell to year 9) when the reality is more complex.

Oh yes, I quite agree, but I just don't agree that this is the case right now!

Sky News can say whatever it likes. The world was horrified and the round of applause for Zelensky rippled round the globe.

what if the world or majority of the free world just went to defcon 1 and pointed them at russia ?

"Free world" is a term historically used during the Cold War to describe countries that were not part of the communist bloc

And if the West truly mobilized, Russia would fold.

Sure "MsAmerica"

Whom are you going to mobilise, exactly?

A lot has happened in Europe and in Russia and other Eastern states since 100 years ago. It's literally a different world now. The USA got nuclear weapons and used them, then loads of other countries got them. The Soviet Union was created, then disbanded, then the post-soviet treaties were eroded ... this particular disputed border has arisen because of said erosion and NATO expansion (and internal Ukraine corruption), not because of anything remotely resembling Lebensraum - clearly, given that several years in there are no new fronts.

The UK, as a country geographically (and now, sadly, economically and politically) separate from the continent and a history of being in extended hock to the world's biggest nuclear power was at the time of increased hostilities a really useful ballast but we've done that job now, Russia doesn't have any greater designs, and it's time to cool the whole thing down. It's going to be a messy border but it always was anyway, since post-soviet lines were drawn. There are messy borders all over the place. The UK itself has one with Ireland for eg. That doesn't mean the UK is Hitler, and Donbas doesn't mean Putin is Hitler either.

I agree that appeasement won't work although I know there are no easy answers.

Putin has no intention of stopping with whatever he gets. In fact, I believe he would rather like to rebuild as much of the former Soviet Union as possible, and then some.

The problem is, Trump is as thick as shit and also very egotistical. He really does seem too stupid to see this, or to see that he is being played by Putin.

Trump thought when he first returned to office that he would be able to stop the war in Ukraine in about 24 hours and said as much publicly. Predictably of course, it didn't work like that. Here we are 8 months on and he still hasn't learned anything. There has never been a more stupid (or dangerous) US President. He can't seem to see that Putin is not his friend and is playing him.

It makes you wonder how big a rat has to be before Trump will finally smell it!! I guess that's why all of the other European leaders had to abruptly drop everything this week and rush to Washington. I don't remember that ever happening before. They can see the direction of travel here. Trump is too much of an arse.

Russia is in fact struggling. I think Putin is putting pressure now because he needs to see this resolved as much as Zelensky does. If Trump was such a skilled negotiator he'd take advantage of the opponent being in a difficult position (economically the war is taking its toll)

This sums it up:

im not sure on that one