Who would you vote for in a general election tomorrow?

[maybegoingcrazy]

If the next GE was tomorrow, who would you vote for? I've been unimpressed at decisions made by Labour since they came in and just don't have much faith in their long term plans. I've never even considered voting Tory, but also don't really see Labour doing much more to improve things for anyone. Will be interesting to see how things are in a few years time when the next GE comes round. Am I missing some really good stuff Labour are implementing?

Reform

You do realise that DEI directly benefits women? Because we're really far from equality or equity. What do you think scrapping DEI would achieve for us women? We can discuss the manner in which such initiatives are implemented but surely not the principle. Besides, I don't want to live in a country that embraces discrimination in favour of white blokes just because they're white blokes. The argument that DEI is antithetical with merit is a really dishonest one. Look at what's going on in the US. Those who want to scrap DEI really just want the license to discriminate even more than they are currently.

Also the 'bonfire of the quangos' is again just a way to wreak havoc and make things more opaque. Making the civil service more efficient would be great, but like with DEI, the chainsaw method is purely destructive. A 'bonfire' would likely also just be wasteful.

I don't think vast sums need to be spent on DEI for women. Sorry. I think that battle has been mostly won. Certainly compared to when I was at the start of my professional career.

Apologies if you already know this but was one of Margaret Thatcher's phrases together with rolling back the frontiers of the state. Designed to ensure the state provided less but better. Unlike now.

I'd say now is not a time to be complacent. I don't think anything has been won and progress should be fought for everyday really. Misogyny is definitely on the rise again.

I definitely know the phrase and its origins. I don't feel like debating Thatcher's legacy but in any case, Farage is not anywhere near her caliber.

I worked in a male dominated professional environment in the City in the 90s and 2000s. While I obviously am 100%.behind supporting women in the workplace today is a very different working world to then. We don't need state funded DEI.

We still don’t have equal pay in practice despite the legislation being in place for 55 years. We most certainly need oversight of equality.

We need the law to be enforced.

Green, like I did the last time

I feel beyond uncomfortable with the increasing amount of hate and punching down - so obviously not Tories or Labour and most definitely not reform. I just wish when politicians are putting forward a policy, they’re more honest about it. If the policy is good enough, it should stack up without lies and the trade offs should be acknowledged and not minimised.

Labour

I also think the level of reporting in this country has been steadily sinking and is now exclusively pandering to a populist agenda. For example, the absolutely groundbreaking partnership in nuclear defence between the UK and France has barely got a mention anywhere when it's in fact the most significant strategic move in literally decades. Instead, what was plastered all over the Fail? Speculations about the Macrons' marriage and stupid jibes about an open car boot not even worthy of a 7 year old. The Torygraph only banged on about the small boats. And what were the questions asked by British journos at the press conference? All about the small boats. That was it. Has NF made any comments on defence? Nope. He was out in the Channel whingeing about - guess what?- the boats again. Why? because it's political trolling and a massive distraction from the real questions to which he does not have any answers!
When are the facts ever highlighted in the mainstream?
Thankfully they are available, so here's a bit of context re immigration:
Jan to June 2025: 21,000 arrivals by small boats. Assuming this continues on a steady pace and there are no peaks, we are looking at roughly 40,000 arrivals in 2025. Ok. Sounds like a lot but... overwhelmingly, immigration is driven by students (which our universities need!) and work visas (and... we need them!).
What does that tell us? That we need investment in BETTER services and infrastructures. Not slashing them a la Musk with a stupid chainsaw!
What's Reform got to say to that eh?

Image attached taken from Gov.uk: www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-march-2025/summary-of-latest-statistics

@RowsOfFlowers

"What makes you think this?"

Because as @BIossomtoes correctly points out they plan to increase spending and cut taxes and the only way to do this is to significantly increase Government debt which is no longer possible without an economic meltdown as Liz Truss quickly found out and Rachel Reeves is also now finding out.

Labour. But I wouldn't be massively enthusiastic about it. I've been a Labour party member and canvassed for them in the past but I wouldn't do any of that now.

And how do you do that without people paid to do it?

@standfirm,yes the level of reporting does seem to be sinking. Obvious lies from politicians (or repeated factual ‘errors’) are repeated. Newspapers print a correction sometimes, but the damage has been done. They hide behind saying something is an opinion piece - why can’t printed opinion pieces be based on fact though? You can love or hate a proposed policy, but base it on fact. There seems no sense checking of info given to them from other sources either. Questions from journalists are often banal and focus on something daft. If they do try to get to the heart of the matter, they are often fobbed off. We seem to accept that it’s normal for lies and fobbing off - why? Why can’t the electorate have the people that represent us answer questions reasonably? I understand that they have to follow the party line, but answers should then be forthcoming shortly after. The party should need to give an accurate line. In most jobs, you can’t outright lie to clients or keep fobbing them off! Look how many politicians had to come out defending Johnson’s crap - humiliating for them and disrespectful to the electorate.

People shouldn’t have to gamble on who is most likely to do what they say they’re going to do when voting. The whole “this is a disgrace, how can you do it, consider impacts on x and y” is said in opposition for policies - policies which were/are also floated by opposition when in power. These are people’s lives. Decisions can affect generations of people, yet it’s treated like a game. There seem to be certain topics that are no go areas in looking at impacts as though those impacts won’t be felt if they’re not acknowledged e.g. Brexit, the amount of long term illness recurring covid waves are causing etc.

Who ever was most likely to keep Tories/Reform out (unless they were of a similar ilk)

I'll most likely vote Labour, I don't agree with everything they are doing but it's about the only chance of getting investment back into schools and hospitals.

Reform

We would have to have a decent economy first for that to happen though.

So I think that a large number of people voted for Labour at the last election because they felt that the Conservatives over the last 14 years presided over a managed slow economic decline, rising debt and a
slowly declining public services. Or in short things simply got worse over the last 14 years.

A year into the Labour Government a growing number of those Labour voters feel that either Labour are not that different to the Conservatives or that they are still managing a slow economic decline (or arguably a faster decline than under the Tories) and despite much higher government spending they cannot see an improvement in public services. This is leading to a fall for Labour in the opinion polls.

Reform are arguing that "Britain is broken and needs change". Whilst I agree that the current economic situation is indeed broken along with Government finances, I have yet to see any details from Reform on exactly how this "change " will be funded or how it will make an economic difference.

There is a fair chance that Reform could win the 2029 election promising "change ". However their current policies appear to require significant increases in debt, which as Liz Truss quickly found out and Rachel Reeves is finding out is not an option.

In short I don't think that Reform would do a better job than either Labour or the Conservatives, in fact it would most likely make things massively worse.

The question is what do the voters do in the 2034 election after being disillusioned with both the Conservatives and Labour and after Reform has made things a whole lot worse.

It all reminds me of a wonderful quote by Alexander Tyler in the late 1700s:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."

@1dayatatime

So I think that a large number of people voted for Labour at the last election

But there wasn't really any swing towards Labour. Starmer got a very similar vote to Corbyn 5 years earlier. Why Labour got so many seats was that the Tory vote crumbled to a mix of Reform and Libdems, not to Labour. So basically Labour got in by the back door.

We had a change of government because the country was fed up to the back teeth with the Tories and voted tactically to get them out. I suspect the same thing might happen in 2029 but to keep Reform out and we could easily find ourselves with a coalition government which would be no bad thing.