Does the UK still have an 'intellectual class'?

[NormaSnorks]

Not sure if this is politics or society really, but I found myself thinking about this after a couple of social events.

I'm in my 50s and have a group of friends and when we meet I'd say we are are 'intellectually curious' - interested in the news, literature, the arts etc and happy discussing and debating things. We can have very different individual views on things, but we'll be respectful and remain friends at the end of the day. I find our discussions interesting, sometimes challenging and occasionally I change my view about something as a result.

But I don't see this kind of approach around me in other social groups, or in my adult children's friends, or even much in the media? It seems people are either unable or unwilling to discuss anything of substance and become deeply uncomfortable with disagreement?

Is it just a generational thing? Where and who are the young intellectuals?

Most people I know are like this. Have never considered it as being a separate class. Just standard to me.

No, not for years. There’s a strong philistine running through Brutish society, and a real mistrust of anything that might be regarded as ‘intellectual’.

You end up with a frankly ludicrous situation whereby someone like Stephen Fry is widely regarded as a public intellectual.

That’s a snobby comment if ever I’ve read one.

I think there are always some people who whole world is a few streets around them or so and that crosses into their knowledge as well

I'm using 'class' here to mean a set or category of people, rather than a social or economic hierarchy...

Yes, this is what I see too. And it's older TV celebs who are positioned like this. There are still pockets of intelligent programming on BBC TV/radio, but it's diminishing rapidly.

How wonderful for you? I wish I could belong in your circle of friends! I grew up abroad knowing ourselves to be intellectuals. There was some snobbery, of course! But I do so miss those conversations. Nowadays, I find there's as much snobbery in finding words of more than a syllable or two universally taboo! You have made me nostalgic. I don't often cone across many people these days who aren't either pretending dumb, or actually dumb, or fiercely opinionated know it alls. Debate and class and intelligence are all dirty words. Been replaced by f and s! 😥

There has been a real dumbing down of culture here, mainly through TV and media. Look at the quiz shows now compared to years gone by. Ignorance is funny on so many of these shows.

Having said that, we definitely do still have plenty of intellectually curious people. I would say my whole family fit the bill, and my two teens both have loads of friends with a similar outlook.

British, not Brutish!!!😀

Genuine typo!

See my post. That’s a perfect example of what I mean.

Does anyone else remember ‘Islington people’ from the nineties? Close relations of ‘the chattering classes’, which is the term the press used when they wanted to be slightly sneery.

Onthewineagain But are the ‘people you know’ typical of the whole population? Any analysis of society would suggest that there are still distinctions in the interests and preoccupations (and of course some overlaps) between people of different socio-economic groups.

But go to a racecourse and you will find a huge cross-section of society laid out in front of you, a la ‘The Derby Day’ by William Powell Frith!

I think unfortunately people’s cultural and political interests have often gone underground and become something that they pursue in online silos. So there are fewer meeting points for conversation, plus the insidious idea that we can always find new ‘friends’ if the ones that we have don’t agree with us…

Popular culture is unfortunately pretty vacuous, with an emphasis on surface appearances that take a huge amount of time and energy to maintain. Young women going for regular and expensive appointments for nails, eyebrows and lashes comes to mind.

I grew up in the era of grunge. We certainly weren’t the most groomed but we had a lot of time to read books!

Most people are happy wallowing in their ignorance. What’s changed is that ignorance is now seen as a viable end point.

Same here.

I don’t see how? Many people are content never to think about or discuss anything in depth. I don’t think OP means social class. I think OP is simply referring to the section of the population who are interested in politics and culture beyond the current yes/no, right/left, good/bad levels of discourse we see on social media. As a pp observes, your comment illustrates this perfectly.

Yes, intelligence is rejected and ignorance rewarded for its comic value.

In a show such as The Traitors (and yes, I took time out from my intellectual discussions to watch it...😉) the contestants who seemed the most intelligent/ analytical were often rejected/ regarded with the most suspicion.

I see it in politics, too, in some MPs. Profoundly depressing.

I'm not sure what the answer to this is really, but interested in the conversation around it

Do you work in a more intellectual profession or live in a university town perhaps?

The town I live in used to be a lesser known commuter belt one, but in recent years has become more attractive to what people call 'new money' (think footballers wives etc).

We've lost the independent bookshop and the summer classical music festival in the park, but we've gained a botox clinic and a beer festival!

My DC (young adults) are used to family discussions and debates about a wide range of topics, but they admit that they 'dumb it down' with their peer group at work and socially (except for their close friends).

I'm no great shakes intellectually but when I was younger, I often used to act stupid in front of peers because it was just easier. You get a lot of flak and 'who does she think she is' if you're not careful. Plus yes, the suspicious looks.

I suspect an increasingly combative online environment has made people wary of discussing anything which might lead to a horrified scolding, followed by a public disowning. I’ve got plenty of opinions. I just keep them to myself these days.

John Major said ‘Only in Britain could it be thought a defect to be too clever by half’.

He said that quite a long time ago now, so maybe not much has changed.

I was responding to the pp who thinks Stephen Fry is the height of anti intellectualism.

And no, my comment doesn’t illustrate anything except my disgust at faux intellectuals. If you’re hanging out on MN you’re not an intellectual.

Yes, and even commentators like tv reviewers in broadsheets appeared to think that it was a sign of poor emotional intelligence or social nous not to have realised that not disguising their intelligence was a silly move. (I’m thinking of that Asian woman with a doctorate in communications was, I think, the first to go in the last season).

And of course they weren’t wrong, which is depressing.

It will be interesting to see if people who have a reputation, earned or not, for high intelligence are voted out first from the celebrity version. I don’t know the full lineup, but people like David Olusoga or Stephen Fry. Will be interesting to see whether someone like Nick Mohammed (who is known as an actor and comedian, but has an impressive academic track record) is treated similarly.

What nonsense.