Changes to immigration rules announced by Starmer

[OneAmberFinch]

Full white paper here is extensive and announces changes to all avenues of migration - basically their approach to resolving the issues of massively increased migration from 2019-2023/4.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6821aec3f16c0654b19060ac/restoring-control-over-the-immigration-system-white-paper.pdf

And Starmer's commentary on the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ce810e3z6dkt

Handful of headline changes: default timeline to get ILR to go to 10 years instead of 5; abolishing new care worker visas; raising skills threshold for Skilled Workers back up to graduate level; increasing minimum grades required for student visas; various bits and pieces around English language requirements among several other policies

jasflowers
the last 14 years of no growth has proven, what the Chancellor can do for growth is very limited, or they'd all do it.
One thing Labour cold do is re join the C and even the SM, now that would boost growth

Why would we rejoin the customs union and single market if we had no growth after 2010 when we were members?

They’ve been quite happy to have the doctors from the UK working on the wards for free for years’ though whilst training and I’m sure they are just as experienced

so wrong

it depends if Labour get reasonable tax contributions. Otherwise I would imagine that you can actually replicate services provided by other, non permanent routes which don’t lead to residency.

I suppose I’m discussing financial services here, not doctors. Basically a lot of work might be managed differently at a lower cost to businesses.

A lot of tax comes from top end FS earners in the UK.

Gosh you’re so naive. 25 year ago this was a better country to live in.

Around 2004 it felt like most of Poland arrived here and yes we gave them, housing, tax credits and they did low paid jobs (most of them, the professionals would’ve got in the country prior to 2004 anyway). I’m in business I can tell you it drove down prices and labour was suddenly cheap. It was wrong we should’ve just paid more as it was better to do that anyway as prices aren’t being dragged artificially down. Take for example you were a self employed valeter you could say you made nothing claimed the most benefits and sent child tax credit money for kids that don’t live in the Uk back to Poland. Poland did very well from this. They thankfully tightened up these loopholes and since universal credit has came in it’s better and less hobby businesses which has improved things.

Then suddenly we had loads of Asians, Africans and Alabanians. I don’t mind immigrants if they can pay their way and don’t require housing, interpreters, nhs for long term illnesses they came here with etc and yes they should be skilled and educated. Instead we have lots of Uber and Deliveroo drivers in social housing and claiming everything. I suggest the liberals go work a day in a DSS or housing office and tell me they want a million of these people coming a year. I know people personally who’ve left their jobs as they cannot stand working with migrants and their entitlement. They believe Nigel Farage isn’t the answer as we need to start sending their people back. The housing department is like a third world and they believe this country is going that way if we do nothing. I tend to agree these areas of the country where it’s just foreigners aren’t nice places to walk about. How much of this do people want? I sometimes wonder people think “oh I know a foreigner that’s lovely therefore immigration is good”.

Do NHS Trusts not generally consider applications and award training places on merit, qualifications and experience?

(NB I am aware there are specific training schemes for overseas doctors -particularly from less developed countries but apart from those).

@ironyisnotlost24 we shouldn’t be selling visas for £20k

TBF he has ruled out lots of things and then changed his mind!

Lol. Do you think us highly educated high earning migrants who can pay our way will stick around for 10 years to get ILR/ citizenship when we can move to countries that have lower taxes and don't keep changing rules every few years?
No.

Good luck running the country with 9 m on benefits and no high tax payers left.

@nearlylovemyusername

"I agree, but how do you make 25% of working age population who are economically inactive to join labour market and actually make an effort to work? The moment government start talking about benefits review the public shouts about cruelty etc"

Unfortunately it's a political fact that voters that become £10 worse off are always more vocal than voters that become £10 better off.

I think it's fair to say that having 1 in 4 of the working age population as economically inactive (with many on some form of benefits) is economically unviable.

There are effectively two levers to get them back in to work.
A) cut their benefits which is will not play well with many voters or
B) increase the pay of care home workers which will result in a combination of lower profits for their employers but also higher fees.

Or a combination of both. But it's a trade off between the political impact and the economic impact.

I can’t see that voters will have a massive issue with making people work somehow!

I haven't read the full thread but I need to rant. This will cause skilled workes to go elsewhere. British citizens with foreign partners to relocate. I have a British partner and I can't get a visa to join him, we are doing LDR until we find a solution. Same with a lot of british-foreign couples who have met at work elsewhere. Partner works for the NHS, I have british qualifications from UK university and have 10 years experience in public healthcare. Due to legalities of partners job, we would like to be in UK. Since I'm now undesirable immigrant, we need to look eslewhere. Maybe Ireland, maybe somewhere else in EU until they will make everything stricter to UK citizens as way to counter these rules.

How will these rules stop gangs and illegal immigration? Like, the gang members are care workers or their university degrees are only undergraduate? Now they won't be able to enter?

@Rewis

"How will these rules stop gangs and illegal immigration"

No rules will stop illegal migration because by definition it is illegal.

Al you can do to reduce illegal migration is deter (making the UK a less attractive destination), detect (eg find out who the smuggling gangs and try and make it harder for them) and deport (failed asylum seekers).

There will be special questions on the third conditional and the past perfect continuous tense on arrival.

That’ll smash them.

Do you think it’s too expensive or cheap?

The £4K per person is for 2.5 years, then you pay your usual income tax and NIC on top.

Plus VAT, council tax and all the usual living expenses/contributions to society.

@ironyisnotlost24far too cheap, because assuming you can get ILR in 5 years, that is the British state assuming responsibility for you and your family forever regardless of your ongoing contribution

Economically Inactive? So SAHM's, Students, long term sick, early retirees, carers, the 16 to 18 age group... only the long term sick will be on benefits, which you think will be suitable for a benefit cut!

Good luck getting people who don't need to work, to take a job in Social Care, especially as many of these roles require the carer to have their own car.

Anyone living rurally will also require a car for any other jobs you want to force them to take.

Yes, exactly- this mindset totally changes the outside perception of the UK i.e one that is hostile to everyone not born here!

And @ironyisnotlost24if you look at citizenship schemes and golden visas for other countries, it’s a six figure sum.

Golden visas and citizenship schemes don't change the rules halfway through the scheme, leaving those of us who have followed all the rules floundering.
While those who gamed the rules were allowed in.

@TheHouseofGirthi think there should be no change for higher level taxpayers as it clearly isn’t in anyone’s interests, but honestly, if you’ve come over on a visa to work in a care home for five years and have no intention of continuing to work as a carer and are likely to claim benefits or if you’ve used a university visa as a way to try to buy citizenship, I honestly don’t think that the British state can afford to honour any promise you think you’ve been made.

I am a high level taxpayer, as is my DH, and the rules are being changed for us, and the many taxpaying migrants.
I would rather cut my hand off than take benefits. I would sooner leave.

Yes @TheHouseofGirthi think this is nonsense. I think that the white paper refers to the position being 5-10 years on a sliding scale. I’d hope in your case it remains at 5 years. Whereas I’d hope that someone whose contribution is less clear (less tax paid, less English, concerns raised by agencies, long term medical conditions - Australia and NZ will screen people) would be at 10 years or not at all.

Yes it’s going to be that exactly. But governments can change immigration rules freely and lawfully. Anyone in this system could find it changed which is why you want to nail down citizenship pdq and not be content with ILR. ILR is a very malleable legal status in the UK.