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Politics

Changes to immigration rules announced by Starmer

658 replies

OneAmberFinch · 12/05/2025 14:27

Full white paper here is extensive and announces changes to all avenues of migration - basically their approach to resolving the issues of massively increased migration from 2019-2023/4.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6821aec3f16c0654b19060ac/restoring-control-over-the-immigration-system-white-paper.pdf

And Starmer's commentary on the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ce810e3z6dkt

Handful of headline changes: default timeline to get ILR to go to 10 years instead of 5; abolishing new care worker visas; raising skills threshold for Skilled Workers back up to graduate level; increasing minimum grades required for student visas; various bits and pieces around English language requirements among several other policies

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6821aec3f16c0654b19060ac/restoring-control-over-the-immigration-system-white-paper.pdf

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 10:16

@DuncinToffee

"Whilst low paid, social care work is not low skilled."

Totally fair point and I really don't like the term "low skilled ".

EasternStandard · 13/05/2025 10:18

jasflowers · 13/05/2025 10:08

My point is, which so far you seem to have considerable difficulty with, is whilst Reform may well beat Labour, they will annihilate the Tories.

This once great party may well cease to exist post 2029.

Tories need to address why they are doing so poorly against a v unpopular Govt.

BTW i believe Reform will form the next Govt, it may be 4 years and thats a long time in politics, i just think, as with Trump, the electorate has had it both with the 2 main parties but Reform will not end the Labour party, it will the Tories.

There’s no difficulty. If you want Labour to win focus on who will beat you. Harking on about 14 years won’t do it.

Reform is the threat to you.

bombastix · 13/05/2025 10:29

1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 10:09

@OneAmberFinch
@EasternStandard

"I do have to smile when people bring up Tory immigration policy as a sort of gotcha... to people who are probably even more furious with the Tories than they are"

I can understand the logic (although not agree with) of why the Tories or the right would be in favour of large scale legal immigration for "low skilled" jobs . It enables employers to hire at lower wages and less favourable working conditions with less cost on training, thereby increasing profits / lower costs thereby keeping inflation lower.

Displaced UK nationals that become unemployed or economically inactive can then be explained away as unemployable / lazy / welfare dependents etc.

Any objections from white UK nationals working class can be shut down as being racist. Any objections from brown or black UK nationals working class can be shut down as both racist AND pulling up the ladder behind them.

What I simply can't understand is why left wing voters and even the Unions are in favour of large scale immigration for low skilled jobs. And then to also express concerns on how restrictions on immigration it is going to hit the profitability of such employers is beyond me.

Your last point is an interesting one as this wasn’t always the case. In fact unions had been quite hostile. I suppose if you look at who is a member now then it will show that their members are in fact representing migration patterns over the last 20 years. They are no longer beer and sandwiches and smoke filled rooms.

EasternStandard · 13/05/2025 10:44

Reform’s polling isn’t even surprising. Before the GE I thought a Labour win would prompt it. Looks like they could take the next GE.

matresense · 13/05/2025 10:52

@OneAmberFinchtotally agree with you. It is important to understand who you are talking about - the difference between the top universities and the bottom is huge

inamarina · 13/05/2025 10:54

Mypinkchequebookholder · 13/05/2025 08:15

They lie.

That's why the Home Office have to employ specialist translators to determine for example, which side of the border of country A/B they come from. This takes time and money.

Migrants also lie about their age and apparently we aren't allowed to do dental checks to determine this. Hence the ridiculous situation where you have a man with a full beard in a class full of children.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2021/12/27/surging-illegal-boat-crossings-drive-record-spike-in-asylum-age-fraud/

Edited

I‘ve seen a program about Germany and how they tried to handle the issue of missing ID.
They showed a case where immigration officials had their doubts about someone’s claimed origin, so they arranged appointments with embassies of a few different countries that particular person might have been from to help them determine.
The individual in question kept skipping the embassy appointments, so the complicated and time consuming process yielded no results.

matresense · 13/05/2025 10:55

@ByQuaintAzureWasp

I don’t think that it is true that people don’t care about bringing people in to do work, any work. People want an immigration policy that serves the needs of the country in the long term. Bringing someone in to do care work on minimum wage, letting them bring their family and giving them settled status after 5 years with no obligation to continue doing care work and with an entitlement to benefits is a very low return for maybe 4 permanent visas. People now want to see a genuine assessment of benefit. They have been fobbed off

jasflowers · 13/05/2025 11:15

EasternStandard · 13/05/2025 10:18

There’s no difficulty. If you want Labour to win focus on who will beat you. Harking on about 14 years won’t do it.

Reform is the threat to you.

There you go again! refusing to accept the blindingly obvious.

Reform is threat to both main parties.

btw Reform is no threat to me, personally, at all, my preference would be a LD win.

I don't like Labour or Starmer but equally, the Tories being replaced by Reform, will not be good for the UK

Mypinkchequebookholder · 13/05/2025 11:23

jasflowers · 13/05/2025 10:03

HR lawyers can only act within the law, they don't make law, neither do judges.

The Nationality and Borders Act has done nothing, huge numbers coming here.

Morally and ethically, unaccompanied children seeking asylum deserve to be treated differently than young adults seeking asylum, but such preferential treatment is fraught with the difficulty of ascertaining the correct age of asylum seekers. In 2022 the previous government established the National Age Assessment Board (NAAB) and legislation made provision for the use of x-rays and MRIs in age assessments

This has given rise to a considerable number of legal challenges over the years, and judgments from the Supreme Court down on topics including what happens when there are conflicting age assessments, when should a person be re-assessed and the resources involved in undertaking such assessments.

The creation of NAAB was not without controversy, particularly in social worker circles. The British Association of Social Workers urged practitioners not to take jobs with the NAAB, on the basis that it considered that practitioners' professional judgment risked being compromised, in the light of government rhetoric about adult asylum seekers exploiting the system by claiming to be children. However, the Nationality and Borders Act 2022 was also controversial because it made provision for regulations to be introduced which allowed a variety of ‘scientific methods’ for age assessments, such as x-rays of teeth and bones of the hands and wrist and MRIs of knees and collar bones. Multiple organisations, including the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health (RCPCH) and British Association of Social Workers, have voiced strongly-worded concerns about the introduction of such scientific age assessments in the UK, both because these methods are not reliable and also because they raise ethical issues and issues surrounding informed consent.

(My italics)

EasternStandard · 13/05/2025 11:31

jasflowers · 13/05/2025 11:15

There you go again! refusing to accept the blindingly obvious.

Reform is threat to both main parties.

btw Reform is no threat to me, personally, at all, my preference would be a LD win.

I don't like Labour or Starmer but equally, the Tories being replaced by Reform, will not be good for the UK

Where have I posted about the Tories? That’s you on every post. You’re posting against info I haven’t actually said. When I post Reform is the threat to Labour you can work out I don’t think the Tories are, right?

It’s not hard.

And LD won’t win.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/05/2025 13:18

GlutesthatSalute · 13/05/2025 10:04

The Bangladeshis really seem to have the most steadfast prejudice against integrating. They so often don't attempt to speak English or mix. If you are the mother of a child at a predominantly Bangladesh-origin school, it is lonely at the school gates as they cluster with their own and won't return your greeting or speak English at all. They absolutely hate dogs and often other pets, too, and encourage the next generation to be terrified of them. The wives often presented with the most terrible bruising at the place I used to work. Because the mothers are often so sheltered and isolated from wider society, they don't seem to have the slightest clue when their kids get into drug running on their electric scooters or acquire knives.

There is definitely self-imposed segregation there and you can see how divided society has become in some places.

A lot of stereotypes in one post. It's quite impressive.

1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 13:22

@DuncinToffee

"Yet it was the Tory government that increased low skilled immigration with Brexit and post covid.

Whilst low paid, social care work is not low skilled."

Exactly it was definitely in the Tory / right wing interest to increase "low skilled" (I hate that term) immigration because it then enables companies requiring such staff to import labour at lower salaries to work in worse working conditions and avoid training compared to hiring UK nationals.

This then allows the employers to make higher profits.

But why oh why would the left and even the Unions be in favour of high levels of "low skilled " immigration- it just doesn't make sense. Unless of course they also want to help those companies to make higher profits through importing cheap labour.

EasternStandard · 13/05/2025 13:26

1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 13:22

@DuncinToffee

"Yet it was the Tory government that increased low skilled immigration with Brexit and post covid.

Whilst low paid, social care work is not low skilled."

Exactly it was definitely in the Tory / right wing interest to increase "low skilled" (I hate that term) immigration because it then enables companies requiring such staff to import labour at lower salaries to work in worse working conditions and avoid training compared to hiring UK nationals.

This then allows the employers to make higher profits.

But why oh why would the left and even the Unions be in favour of high levels of "low skilled " immigration- it just doesn't make sense. Unless of course they also want to help those companies to make higher profits through importing cheap labour.

I don’t think politicians want to tackle it particularly. Well they didn’t until Reform was looking likely to win.

And that’s down to public sentiment.

Two minutes ago it was dog whistle apparently.

1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 13:26

@bombastix

"Your last point is an interesting one as this wasn’t always the case. In fact unions had been quite hostile. I suppose if you look at who is a member now then it will show that their members are in fact representing migration patterns over the last 20 years. They are no longer beer and sandwiches and smoke filled rooms."

True but the role of the unions is still to protect their current members and to an extent the working class in general. It's not to help employers make higher profits by avoiding paying UK nationals the necessary wages to fill positions by simply importing cheaper labour.

DuncinToffee · 13/05/2025 13:28

1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 13:22

@DuncinToffee

"Yet it was the Tory government that increased low skilled immigration with Brexit and post covid.

Whilst low paid, social care work is not low skilled."

Exactly it was definitely in the Tory / right wing interest to increase "low skilled" (I hate that term) immigration because it then enables companies requiring such staff to import labour at lower salaries to work in worse working conditions and avoid training compared to hiring UK nationals.

This then allows the employers to make higher profits.

But why oh why would the left and even the Unions be in favour of high levels of "low skilled " immigration- it just doesn't make sense. Unless of course they also want to help those companies to make higher profits through importing cheap labour.

How have 'the left' and unions been in favour of high levels of 'low skilled' immigration?

jasflowers · 13/05/2025 13:31

1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 13:22

@DuncinToffee

"Yet it was the Tory government that increased low skilled immigration with Brexit and post covid.

Whilst low paid, social care work is not low skilled."

Exactly it was definitely in the Tory / right wing interest to increase "low skilled" (I hate that term) immigration because it then enables companies requiring such staff to import labour at lower salaries to work in worse working conditions and avoid training compared to hiring UK nationals.

This then allows the employers to make higher profits.

But why oh why would the left and even the Unions be in favour of high levels of "low skilled " immigration- it just doesn't make sense. Unless of course they also want to help those companies to make higher profits through importing cheap labour.

Isn't GDP influenced by immigration levels?

Read recently that the treasury is always against curbs because it lowers the figures.

So it would appear that whilst the Tories boast about GDP growth pre GE, it was only because it was as a result of 1m net migration - which they are now totally against and blaming the Govt for!

Politicians!!!

On the nonsense about Unions being pro immigration, maybe look at what they were saying pre EU referendum?

Many union leaders were for Brexit, precisely because of migration levels and lower wages.

1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 13:33

@EasternStandard

"I don’t think politicians want to tackle it particularly. Well they didn’t until Reform was looking likely to win.

And that’s down to public sentiment.

Two minutes ago it was dog whistle apparently."

Fair point. I guess previously anyone who expressed concern on immigration was accused of being a racist or a bigot:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-bigoted-woman

But I guess this accusation has been so overused as to now become meaningless. That said there are still some such as Lucy Powell who are still stuck in the 2010s and continue with with the racism angle :

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2ew9jnj2p1o.amp

EasternStandard · 13/05/2025 13:35

1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 13:33

@EasternStandard

"I don’t think politicians want to tackle it particularly. Well they didn’t until Reform was looking likely to win.

And that’s down to public sentiment.

Two minutes ago it was dog whistle apparently."

Fair point. I guess previously anyone who expressed concern on immigration was accused of being a racist or a bigot:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-bigoted-woman

But I guess this accusation has been so overused as to now become meaningless. That said there are still some such as Lucy Powell who are still stuck in the 2010s and continue with with the racism angle :

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2ew9jnj2p1o.amp

The same posters would be using those attacks on here. Now Starmer turns on a dime you see the fresh take. Not a dog whistle apparently.

DuncinToffee · 13/05/2025 13:40

That are sectors with high vacancy levels. How do you propose they fill those?

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/05/2025 13:40

That's not evidence that unions are in favour of mass amounts of unskilled workers. Do you expect unions not to support workers?

1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 13:43

@jasflowers

"Isn't GDP influenced by immigration levels?

Read recently that the treasury is always against curbs because it lowers the figures.

So it would appear that whilst the Tories boast about GDP growth pre GE, it was only because it was as a result of 1m net migration - which they are now totally against and blaming the Govt for!

Politicians!!!"

To an extent GDP can be boosted by immigration levels. But it depends a lot on:
Type of migrants- educated migrants in professional roles do indeed increase GDP. But "low skilled jobs" ones don't.
Numbers of migrants - if you have migration levels of up to 100k per year then yes it does improve the GDP. But beyond that the benefit declines until it becomes a negative impact on GDP.
Age of migrants- in the short term the younger the migrants the bigger the benefit. But like everyone the younger migrants will get eventually old whereupon they start becoming a net cost to GDP.

1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 13:46

@DuncinToffee

"That are sectors with high vacancy levels. How do you propose they fill those?"

By the same way every employer in a free market fills high vacancy levels - higher wages, better working conditions and better training.

Emydon't get to avoid this by importing cheap labour and then passing the benefit cost of 9 million economically inactive UK nationals on to the taxpayers.

ironyisnotlost24 · 13/05/2025 13:47

fatttyfatfat · 12/05/2025 17:10

All it means is they'll have to do another 2 rounds of visa applications they'd unlikely be sent back if already here

Do you know how much these visas cost?

On average somewhere around £4-5K per person, every 2.5 years, paid up front. That could be £20K for a family of four.

It’s completely unfair to change the goal posts for people who made commitments to uproot their lives to move to the UK for work or family with the understanding that after five years they would be eligible for ILR.

1dayatatime · 13/05/2025 13:48

@MiloMinderbinder925

"That's not evidence that unions are in favour of mass amounts of unskilled workers. Do you expect unions not to support workers?"

It is evidence that Unions object to the recent proposed tightening of immigration of "low skilled" workers.