African neighbour voted Reform

[WhatShoes4me]

I was talking to one of my neighbours over the garden fence today. I wasn't sure if they had voted as didn't know their rights and I don't know how long they've been in the country. They've lived there over a year. They're African.
I said I was glad our local councillor had kept their seat. Labour. They do a lot for us. I've had a fair bit of contact and they do what they say.
Neighbour said they'd voted Reform. They're from an African country and are black. I was so shocked I couldn't hide it. I hadn't asked they just said. I thought they were joking at first but no.
Dh said why was I surprised? I thought that was obvious?

Quite.

They have a different political view from you OP. It’s as simple as that. You have different perspectives and therefore different presumptions. You assume that a net zero immigration stance implies a racists motive, they don’t.

Truth is people could be anti increased immigration for racist reasons or economic reasons. Given they are black, I would assume they fancy lower taxes and think Reform are their best bet.

Again though, why vote while you haven't been confirmed settlement status? (Presume he want's to stay long term) It's not the views, it's the timing.

Yes I agree people vote against their own interests, its a complete mystery to me why they continue to vote Tory and Labour when they have made such a mess of things and made life for people in the UK so much worse over the past 25 years. It was really pleasant living here in the 90s and everything felt well run, not so much now. For younger people who don't know any better it's excusable but beats me why people in their 40s and 50s upwards vote for the same failed parties!

Multi ethnicity is fine but multiple cultures hasn't worked anywhere in the world or in history and has always descended into Balkan style ethnic conflict as different groups battle for their culture to dominate. This is very worrying for this and other Western countries as is the lazy and complacent assumption that "our" values (which aren't common in the rest of the world) such as racial and sexual equality will always dominate. We can already see signs of this. Multi ethnic societies can only succeed if there is unity but our leaders and media seem to be only trying to divide us.

Thanks OP @WhatShoes4me for starting this thread.

I think it’s so important to know the reasons that diverse people and communities are voting for Reform. There’s a lot of different motivations.

It’s a lesson from Brexit. We have to listen and not make assumptions. Lots of us find it too hard to discuss politics with someone who has very different views and so avoid it. I get that. But for those who can (or want to) it’s so important to ask and listen.

Politics and voting affect us and our kids, and loved ones, more than anything else.

As above I would be interested in a thread on why people vote Labour and Tory. Maybe I need to start my own!

The dh spoke to me the next day asking how the elections had gone. He thought it was to get Starmer out! I explained local elections and general elections to him. Then chatted normally about dcs etc.

Presumably the dh didn't vote then - only his wife did.

About 20 years ago I knew a man from Pakistan and he said get should ship them all out of the country, all races are racist not all people but there is racism in every race.

Because people look after their own interests

My friend from Sri Lanka hates ppl from India and Pakistan and won't eat in Indian restaurants, she likes Afternoon Tea in posh hotels lol

Both did. They didn't know the candidates names just wanted Starmer out.

The dynamics behind any voting decision at a local level can be very different than that made for a general election. I voted for a long standing ‘local conservative’ that serves his community well (as seen by me, a parish councillor). Others, without that understanding, may have voted Reform as a way of putting a shot across Labour’s bows, without any intention of it allowing national power.

I don't think it's unusual to not know/remember the names of local candidates - probably very common in local elections.

You said you discussed your local councillor with the wife - you gave no indication that she didn't understand what you were talking about or what the election was for. You also described the wife as 'intelligent' - now you are trying to make out your neighbours are dumb and didn't know the difference between a local election and a general election. Your neighbours obviously registered to vote and I'm sure they've come across local elections before - even in Africa.

No they're not dumb. Maybe they had only just realised this was happening and not what it was for? I don't know? I'm not going to mention it again unless they do. They know it was for local now.

You haven't addressed the discrepancy with your opening post - you were talking about your local councillor with the wife the day after the election. Sorry, but I just don't believe your update, if indeed I believe any of it.

Plenty of migrants think our liberal immigration/border policy is insane.

Plus not every migrant has liberal values.

I've listened to quite a few ethnic minority callers on LBC worried about increased levels of immigration. The most common worries were overcrowding in their local area, lack of housing and overwhelmed local services, increased competition for jobs for their children (in particular graduate jobs) and several shopkeepers who were concerned about increased crime and shoplifting linked to new arrivals in their area. Similar concerns to other people worried about increased levels of immigration.

Plus there's migrants who pay thousands for visas and jump through all kinds of hoops to do things by the book. Get here, work their arse off etc just to see people turn up on boats, break into the country and get everything handed to them for free.

Back in 2008, BBC journalist Rageh Omaar presented a 3 part documentary on immigration.

In one of the episodes, he spoke exclusively to black Londoners on the topic. Almost all the interviewees were either concerned about limiting, or outright stopping immigration, with many expressing dislike for the large numbers of Polish/EE migrants who'd recently moved into traditionally West Indian areas like Tooting and Peckham under the Blair/Brown governments. Several were planning to vote Conservative in the next general election as a result.

There was a surprising amount of 'they're taking our jobs' rhetoric, which was also evident when he spoke to white English interviewees as well.

You know about Badenoch, Patel and Suella presumably?