Why do people like reform?

[TheGoogleMum]

I haven't been keeping very up to date with politics. I usually vote Labour. I don't really understand the popularity of reform, could anyone explain it to me?
As far as I'm aware Farage doesn't actually do anything when he wins a seat somewhere so I'm not convinced they'll actually do anything? Is it just a protest vote that's gone a bit far?

Re NHS spending, we need to make choices as to "who" and "what" to treat and concentrate limited resources on the most "worthy". We can't afford to treat everybody for everything anymore. Yes, difficult choices, but we can't go on as we are. And even if we manage to cut the waste and inefficiency, it's still not enough. We shouldn't have 83 year old women languishing on trolleys in A&E corridors whilst we're giving freebie tattoo removal or breast enhancements or paying for interpreters for immigrants who've been in the country for decades but not bothered to learn English! Nor should we be giving free prescriptions for people who have enough money to pay for them.

Reeves and Starmer are already trying higher taxes. On businesses and the CGT one, and others. It’s lowering receipts. They also upped borrowing and have to pay more in debt servicing.

Trying to do more taxes or borrowing isn’t viable, people will have to think of another way.

Reform won in my town and by talking to many locals they’re just fed up of Labour.

My town is rammed to the brim of Vape shops, Turkish barbers, the usual money laundering outfits. Migrant hotels and vast amounts of HMOs all housing young migrant men. We have already seen a lot of crime come from these men unfortunately.

My town joined a resettlement scheme which is lovely, yet they have thousands upon thousands of locals on waiting lists. It’s caused anger. They have now offered to take on thousands more over the next 10 years, locals don’t want that.

Services have been slashed, they’re talking about stopping all funding for SEN children to get to school. They closed the pool, they’re leaving historical buildings to fall apart. They’re allowing 500 homes to be built of green belt land when we’re surrounded by plenty of brown field sites.
Our Labour council does not listen, so they have to reap what they sow unfortunately

Their "other" way was economic growth, but they've screwed that up with the NIC hike which is causing unemployment and reduced business profits, i.e. higher benefits and lower tax receipts. Slow hand clap for Rachel!

@Ethelflaedofmercia

My town is rammed to the brim of Vape shops, Turkish barbers, the usual money laundering outfits. Migrant hotels and vast amounts of HMOs all housing young migrant men. We have already seen a lot of crime come from these men unfortunately.

Nail on the head there. The reality of life out in the regions. Trouble is that those living in "naice" areas only think of immigration as their family doctor or an accountant/lawyer they work with, or a top end ethnic restaurant. They don't see the money laundering turkish barbers taking over High Streets, they don't see the JustEat delivery riders on illegal electric bikes, they don't see the gangs of young adults smoking weed and harrassing/intimidating locals outside their city centre hotels.

@EasternStandard

Trying to do more taxes or borrowing isn’t viable, people will have to think of another way.

Reduce wastage

Re-allocation of existing funds to more useful things

I live in an area with a very large migrant population and I like it. At the end of our road there are yemeni and syrian food places all up and down the road – lots of falafel, baklava, etc. In the evenings places stay open and there is life on the streets – there are some stone seating areas in a small plaza sort of area where people gather, drink coffee and play chess. It’s friendly and relaxed. I much prefer it to a cold area with an off licence and a tesco express and zero sense of community.

There are a mix of cultures on our street. One of our neighbours is a small mosque, and they brought us a gift and a card when we moved in and gave us chocolate at Eid. If we ask someone outside to lower the noise (sometimes there is chatting), they immediately apologise and do so. People are respectful and there’s a nice atmosphere.

Yep!

@GlobeTrotter2000that too, and maybe some incentives for growth rather than the opposite by Reeves and co

So you live in a "Naice" area then!

@taxguru

So it's a meaningless and pointless virtue signalling statement.

I understand why you think paying more tax is meaningless and virtue signalling. If you're a Reform supporter you think everything appears out of thin air.

People say things: "stop the boats"! "Build detention centres"! "Take 'em back to France"!

And it just happens with no planning or money. You don't worry about trivialities like details.

You could of course prove me wrong and explain to me how Reform are going to achieve their promises whist lowering tax.

I see you're a tax guru so this should be informative.

Well not really. It’s not an affluent area at all. According to this website my street scores 1/10 for mean income and 10/10 for deprivation! https://crystalroof.co.uk Yet it feels safe and welcoming.

The previous poster said:

Trouble is that those living in
"naice" areas only think of immigration as their family doctor or an accountant/lawyer they work with, or a top end ethnic restaurant.

I.e. The experience with migrants is at arms length in professional situations or during high-end leisure time. And they’re the ‘right’ kind of migrants – middle-class professionals.

I don’t think that’s the perspective I’ve shared at all.

Ooh keeping the arrivals here is costing a lot so I don’t know

if only this had been done in the first place

That's not true but we tend to think others think like us.

If that were true we wouldn't have a welfare state or NHS or public services because we wouldn't want to pay for them.

Even Reform supporters think about others. They may use dehumanising language like "boat people" or "illegals" but they keep talking about helping British people first and give examples of the homeless.

They're not all homeless so they must be thinking about other people. It is possible.

Oh those bloody mopeds with permanent L signs on them weaving in and out

“The people talking” is over-egging it. There are 317 councils in England. Reform now has 8.

If only what had been done in the first place?

A bit like smash the gangs, fully costed and fastest growing in G7

But if you do want higher taxes which ones are you wanting to go up?

Simple solutions to complex problems. I look forward to seeing how they can provide the great public services and military strength their supporters want, along with lower taxes. Good luck with that.

The things like building a detention centre or better border controls

Same here. I actually love the mix of cultures where I love. I find it an interesting and vibrant place to live. DH was talking of retiring to the coast and all I could think of was not wanting to leave our diverse and multicultural neighbourhood.

We already do have detention centres but we don't have enough to house the backlog which runs into the tens of thousands.

If you look at the state of our prison system, quite a few of which are in emergency measures, you'll see why it's not really feasible.

They cost a fortune to staff and maintain and we have laws about how long you can keep someone in detention. I thought Reform wanted to save money.

How would better border controls work?

The anti-immigrant rhetoric is all I’ve seen of them recently, and - for the majority of their voters - I would say that’s all they’ve seen too but think it’s enough to persuade them that’s where their vote should go. I know so, so many people who do not read manifestos in full, or even watch the TV debates, instead getting their information from short, snappy social media posts RE the party’s “USP”. That seems to be enough information for many.

It is true. Obviously considering your own family as of paramount importance doesn't mean that you can't consider other people. It's not a zero sum game. It's just if you had to choose one or the other would you want your own child to have a happy life or the child of a stranger. And as I said, unless you are Jesus, I dare say your own child is your priority.

Toad of Toad Hall has already mooted private health insurance, I think?

I don’t know if I’m honest but places like Australia seem to manage it.