Trumpers' transactional attitude toward other countries.

[MsAmerica]

Trump's people, after being exposed by their security lapse where they happened to include the worst possible person for them, the wonderful editor Jeffrey Goldberg, are busy trying to pretend nothing went wrong. But there are several notable aspects that aren't getting as much notice, and this in particular infuriated me: The idea that, rather doing something because it's right, or useful, or traditional, there has to be a transactional "extraction."

Now Europe Knows What Trump’s Team Calls It Behind Its Back: ‘Pathetic’
Trump officials have demanded more European military spending and questioned the continent’s values. Leaked messages show the depth of the rift.
By Jeanna Smialek and Steven Erlanger

Europeans reacted with a mix of exasperation and anger to the publication of parts of a discussion between top-ranking Trump administration officials, carried out on the messaging app Signal. The discussion, about a planned strike on Yemen, was replete with comments that painted Europeans as geopolitical parasites, and was revealed on Monday in The Atlantic, whose editor was inadvertently included in the conversation.

“I just hate bailing out the Europeans again,” wrote Vice President JD Vance, asserting that the strikes would benefit Europe far more than the United States.

“I fully share your loathing of European freeloading,” Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense, later replied. “It’s PATHETIC.”

The exchange seemed to show real feelings and judgments — that the Europeans are mooching and that any American military action, no matter how clearly in American interests as well, should be somehow paid for by other beneficiaries.

A member of the chat identified as “SM,” and believed to be Stephen Miller, a top aide to President Trump, suggested that both Egypt and “Europe” should compensate the United States for the operation. “If Europe doesn’t remunerate, then what? If the US successfully restores freedom of navigation at great cost there needs to be some further economic gain extracted in return,” SM wrote.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/25/world/europe/signal-jeffrey-goldberg-message-hegseth.html

It’s kind of obvious that the journalist wasn’t added accidentally. But I have no idea what it was supposed to achieve. We already know trump thinks Europe doesn’t do much about the Russian threat, the Russian gas pipeline to Germany being one instance

There is only value in money and strength (the military kind). That’s the message. Culture, kindness, cooperation, peace, fixing social issues, fuck even nice food and people, all completely unimportant.

Bullying Mexico, Ukraine, Denmark and Canada FFS, the world's nicest people.

Someone said on another thread that they define themselves by what they hate, not what they love. They profess love for things they clearly despise; Jesus, the Constitution. No one cares. As long as they are hateful to women, minorities and other countries. That’s what defines themselves. And what defines most anti-democratic fascist movements. Hate.

It’s like the Boris Johnson years.. Only more dangerous given the world impact.

BJ was shocking about Europe and in particular riled Macron and the French over small boats and other matters. He almost destroyed the Northern Irish Good Friday agreement during Brexit negotiations and relations with the Republic were as bad as they get. He also sold a pack of lies to his supporters - remember “cake-ism”? Yet he was very popular indeed and many true Labour supporters backed him.

Trump and his team are similar but more dangerous because of their power. The end will come when their support base feel it in their wallet and take the vote elsewhere.

But we are living in frightening times.

Let’s also remember how many Americans are feeling. Like the Boris years when we tried to block it out, many Democrats are sitting with their heads in their hands and googling how to get international passports! This is not who the American people are.

Did Europe ask the US to bomb the Houthis? Was Europe involved in it? Or was it a lone US decision?

Anyway, countless articles I've read, I keep trying to find something positive, are basically saying there's nothing anyone can or will do to keep the Trump administration in check.

I was thinking maybe there could be an investigation into 2020 and it's conclusion would be that Trump did indeed win, he was right all along and so was actually president 2021 - 2025 and so is now constitutionally unable to be president now. Then see that happens. Whaddya reckon?

This will all backfire when they tank the US economy..

There will still be MAGA fans who believe the economy is doing great under Trump. Because that's what he will tell them.

That’s the message. Culture, kindness, cooperation, peace, fixing social issues, fuck even nice food and people, all completely unimportant.
True. That's what you get with a leader who has none of those things. Isn't he rumoured to prefer a Big Mac over actual good food?

Overcooked with ketchup. <shudder>

Bit like Trump himself. Ketchup as self tax.

Really? I disagree. Why do you imagine he would have been added deliberately?

Jeffrey Goldberg is the worst possible person, from their point of view.

It's funny - and sad - that a frequent reaction to all this was for American politicians to say "That's not who we are! We're better than that!" But clearly, one-quarter of America, that is about 80,000,000 people liked Trump. And although it's not possible to know what motivated all of them, it's safe to say that it was some combination of gullibility, greed, paranoia and cruelty.
In general, Americans - probably like a lot of other countries - has a huge capacity for self-delusion, liking to think themselves wonderful.

Lol. Right. That's been joked about a lot. If he's so sure he won last time, then he can't be president now.

I suspect that Trump, who seems to be devoid of any hint of interest in what might be called "high culture" - museums, classical music, travel - probably can't much tell food food from mediocre food. But I've heard that one reason he favors McDonald's is that he has long had an irrational fear of poisoning, and thinks that this is a safer option. Of course, now, that fear might not be so irrational.

I have a semi-serious theory that politicians such as Trump (and to a lesser extent Johnson and maybe even Farage) appeal to a certain category of voters who imagine (not, perhaps, entirely without justification in some cases) that politicians (a) look down on them and (b) are hypocrites. With Trump you can finally vote for someone who is genuinely a bigger arsehole than you are. Someone who can say outrageous things and not get ostracised or fired. That might be quite liberating if you have the right mentality (which I would place at about 20% of the way to a diagnosis of anti-social personality disorder). And, returning to the thread title, such people often have a transactional attitude about everything in their lives.

It’s kind of obvious that the journalist wasn’t added accidentally.

I mean, it really isn’t. The Europe comments were an aside in a massive security breach that makes them look even more incompetent than the rest of the world already thought.

I agree with your first and third statements (aggrieved voters and admiring Trump's outrageousness), but not with your second. On the other hand, I generally avoid the word "asshole" as I find it both vulgar and vague. It can mean "stupid" or "nasty" or "inept" or "arrogant" or "clueless" - so I find it useless.
I do think that unfortunately there are awful people who get vicarious pleasure from Trump's awfulness.