Asylum - how does it work, what would providing ‘safe routes’ look like?

[rickyrickygrimes]

I’ve been reading the illegal immigration thread 101 and have a question. Some posters propose that ‘safe routes’ should be provided, for people to apply for asylum in the UK.

What are ‘safe routes’? Where do people seeking asylum apply from - and how? Are there any rich / developed countries that have functioning, safe routes to asylum? How do we prevent them becoming a free for all?

Wages are so low because there are so many people already in this country that are prepared to do a job for a low wage. More and more are coming in and so wages will continue to be suppressed.

That was a Tory line. But there is a shortage of labour for low skilled and therefore lower paid jobs - so despite pointing the finger they continued to allow high levels of immigration simply because it is essential.

The reality is that immigration only has a small impact on low wages (and increases average wages)

The real answers to increasing pay are much more complicated. The UK is one of the most unequal countries in the world. A small number hold most of the wealth.

And none of this has anything to do with asylum seekers anyway.

We are addicted to cheap low skilled labour using immigrants. This needs to stop. Unfortunately all immigrants now.are considered part of the problem. This is the fault of successive governments starting in 1997.

There won't be a shortage of home grown cheap labour soon once the effects of the budget kick in.

It's not a Tory line btw

In 2011 foreign-born workers accounted for 14 per cent of the UK workforce. Today it’s 21 per cent. Employment has grown by 3.6 million since 2011, but fully 74 per cent of this is down to immigrant workers

In 2011, the proportion on out-of-work benefits (including incapacity benefit) in Sunderland was 18 per cent; today it is 19 per cent. In 2011 the unemployment figure in Rotherham was 16 per cent; today it is 18 per cent. In Hartlepool, it was 21 per cent; today, 23 per cent. A quarter of people of working age in the area are claiming welfare for incapacity or worklessness.

3.6 million more are in work compared with 2011 but only 929,000 were born here.

It was 100% a Tory line. They said immigrants caused low wages. Then they stuffed their wallets full of cash and laughed heartily.

I’m not really sure what your figures are trying to prove. Overall The increase is down to the incapacity benefit. Hence the current government targeting it, Overall the unemployment rate has been low and fairly stable.

I think you may have just proved my point actually. Who would have been doing all those newly created jobs if it hadn’t been for immigration?

Are you for welfare cuts? But ok with high numbers of crossings?

i’m not condoning welfare cuts at all. I’m just saying factually this is what drew the attention of the government here- the increase. I’d don’t know what I said that says I’m ok with boat crossings.

I have worked in a related field and the short answer is that there is no solution so long as the demand so far outweighs the capacity of western countries.

If we consider humanitarian reasons the fear of gang violence, famine, war and persecution of women then all of haiti, syria, sudan and ukraine are eligible, just for starters. But where do we put this many refugees ? It's structurally impossible.

I know of an office in an embassy in a third country whose job was to process asylum claims from syrian refugees. They had two people and a backlog of hundreds of applications. But really it doesn't matter if they'd had ten, fifty or a hundred workers in that office. The demand would have outstripped their capacity until the millions of refugees were all processed.

The claims of those that make it to Europe are not worthier - indeed they're usually less so. But they are harder to ignore.

The only way to end it would be to do what the us did and mass deport everyone. Which btw I'm not necessarily advocating for. The way the US is handling that is pretty awful.

I'm just not sure that this is an issue that has a solution. I do think that a country's duty is first to its own citizens, before helping others if and when they can afford to. I also think that when there is capacity, then there is a moral duty to help others - but where is the limit in that regard, how many people can efectively be welcomed until you're reduced to putting them in tents because there's no housing and on benefits because there are no jobs ? That's a grey area.