Smart Meters Big Brother

[dubsie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7912nx2n5lo

I've always suspected these devices were more about collecting data rather than a tool to help energy users save energy.

Here we have a very good example of how data being collected is being used, albeit in error. The meter clearly has fraud software that reports suspicious activity and based on this data the energy company has gain a warrant and broke into someone's home.

The energy company has openly admitted it's AI software needs some work to be more accurate....but how on earth did they manage to gain a warrant based on information that could be flawed. Was the information given to the court and if so will the court and Eon be held accountable for obtaining a warrant under deception....a criminal offence with 2 years custodial sentence.

This poor guy was given no opportunity to stop this warrant. They even capped off his gas because they said he had a leak. So they broke into an elderly mans found nothing wrong with electric but then worked on his gas and then capped him off. Later a gas safe engineer confirmed no leak....so out of pocket as well. I don't know whether he's been given compensation or an apology but what kind of a country allows energy companies to behave like this.

Thankfully I've not been put in that position but I'm glad I own three very territorial Belgian Malinois to protect my home...I suggest people protect their homes....good locks, a good guard dog and a few online cameras

Interesting! But how bizarre, and how creepy!

That's appalling. This type of thing is exactly why I don't want a smart meter. The potential for "misuse" such as controlling your supply, easily cutting off your supply, or using the data for other purposes such as c as was done here. Unfortunately, better technology means a greater ability to monitor and control the population as we've already seen in recent years; we need to guard against further creep.

Agreed. We don't have a smart meter either and will not be getting one.

I'm a heating engineer and have been since I was 16. About 20 years ago I made the decision to a degree part time in Building Design and Engineering.

I do a lot of work at the design phase with architects and while it's mainly commercial I have worked with some domestic customers. It is possible to design a domestic building that uses very little energy. Through insulation, heat capture and state of the art controls it is possible to dramatically lower energy use.

From the start I've been sceptical about smart meters claims of giving customers a tool that will lower energy use. Behaviour can save some energy but the vast majority of energy used is providing hot water and heating. The problem to solve is how much of that energy is being lost.

I'm moving to the opinion that in some cases we should be looking at widespread urban regeneration rather than retrofit. So no matter what technology you use the same old problem exists.....heat loss...

@dubsie At what cost? Who will want Georgian and Victorian houses pulled down? Yes we waste fuel. The meters do allow easy checking though and that’s not a bad thing. Customers need to check tariffs and insulate as much as possible but far too many don’t bother. It is important to check use and we don’t mind our meter at all. DM had one and it’s way less faff. No need for meter reading and it makes life easier.

I used to work for an electricity supply company before the markets opened and even back then the smartcard meters where you inserted a plastic card into the meter to pay for your electric would tell us everything from the meter readings, how much credit you had on the meter, how much you were adding, where you topped up your card ie petrol station, corner shop and the time you did it. If the meter thought you were tampering with it it would tell the company that too. Every time the card went into the meter and into the payment machine information was uploaded.

In the office we had a photo album of all the meters that had been bypassed or photos of lamp posts that had been wired into. It happened more than you think.

The current smart meter customer device telling you what you have used does make some people think about how much electric they are using especially if they are struggling with bills. Before these we had card meters and smart card meters so those customers were potentially paid weekly and topping up weekly knew what they were using. Most others were on 3 month billing and due to people not saving money each month to pay this bill we had a big push to get people onto monthly direct debits. I have taken so many phone calls with people saying I cannot have used this much electricity and we talk them through their electrical appliances. One woman had 5 tvs turned on so she didn't miss morning tv when she went room to room cleaning her house. This was mid 1990s where tvs ate electric.

The age of a person is not collected by the electricity company. We had a list of vulnerable customers which primarily had those on medical equipment. We were alerted by family if someone was elderly and we used to have the relative as a person with permission to speak about the account.

E-on stated they had tried to gain entry with permission 3 times. Warrants take time and cost money to obtain. Why do this when they can just call and arrange a visit or knock on the door? It is after all their meter; it belongs to the geographic electricity company. It is their equipment. No company wants to piss around with a warrant when they can just knock on his door and ask to check his meter. As the market is now open it is harder to arrange this now as it is not in house anymore.

Smart meters today make a world of difference to the cost involved in sending out meter readers in cars to drive to rural locations to read the meter. Easy in a suburb not so easy in the countryside. And yes it allows for data collection to see when people are using energy. I am with Octopus who offer rewards for not using as much electricity at certain times or cheaper electricity at certain times too.

We have zero mobile signal in our meter cupboard.
We also use less electricity than expected due to solar, however I am lazy and do tend to turn on the tumble drier or dishwasher when the sun is shining. We always get over-estimated if I fail to send a reading.

That’s incredible. Coded Bias a good documentary on Netflix.

Unfortunately under 4IR there will be more of this to come. Personally don’t want to live in a digital panopticon if it can be avoided. Will resist ‘smart’ tech as long as can.

Personally don’t want to live in a digital panopticon if it can be avoided. Will resist ‘smart’ tech as long as can

Me too. The gradual creep of this sort of technology into every corner of life makes me profoundly depressed. The fact the people happily pay to have a surveillance device in their homes (Alexa, etc) boggles my mind.

Ah, but nobody has to pay for the smart meters to replace perfectly good old ones with plenty of life left in them - the energy companies pay for this themselves... and I'm sure they wouldn't dream of passing the multimillion pound costs on to the customers in their charges...

Smart meters are sold on the basis of how much money they will save you - but once everybody has switched, the unit price shoots up, so you end up just paying the same as you were (or more) and getting less for it.

It's the same with electric cars, really. With ICE cars, low emission models were very cheap or even free for VED. So when we've all been forced to get an EV, with no emissions on the roads at all (only in the power stations), think how much money we'll all save!

Except that, because of this, pay-per-mile is going to be brought in - to make sure that we all end up paying the same (or more) eventually. Not to mention any rises in the rates of electricity to run them all.

And for those who are (wisely imho) concerned about being tracked, how do you think the government will know exactly how many miles you've travelled and where you've been?

Give up your privacy in exchange for money off. Then you lose the financial incentive before very long, but your privacy is gone for good.

There can surely be no reasonable doubt that the goal is to monitor and restrict your electricity usage, however the energy companies and government see fit.

The so-called Internet of Things is most assuredly not for our benefit. Your toaster, fridge, kettle and washing machine very obviously don't need to be connected to the internet - it's just that it benefits certain parties (but not you) greatly if they are.

Agreed. Think you’re right about us edging towards it (quickly). Noticed too that every single Net Zero policy always (link is not inevitable) puts forward an increase in electrification and digitalisation… anything that can’t be run by smart tech/AI is deemed ‘bad for the environment’ - not green at all. Analogue phones use a third of the energy of a mobile for eg. Lots more but maybe that’s why gas boilers/wood burners they want us to ditch (because smart tech can’t yet control it).

Not to mention loss of jobs, privacy, freedom of movement etc potentially. Interesting times all in but 4IR coming at us fast. Worry for most people = make do & mend and as I say a digital panopticon in reality.

People who are concerned about being in a surveillance society probably shouldn't be on internet forums or use computers.
Electric companies are the worst, most unscrupulous people to deal with and are well known for hounding vulnerable people and overcharging prepayment meters.
However a smart meter that is not being abused by the company is very useful as it allows you to see usage and rather than pay an estimated direct debit where the company makes fortunes in interest over the summer, just pay what you use.

Just submit monthly meter readings, not exactly hard. What's the point of a smart meter that had less than 10 years life expectancy and involves more battery waste in years to come

People who are concerned about being in a surveillance society probably shouldn't be on internet forums or use computers.

It's a balance, though, unless folk want to live off-grid as hermits.

We know what info we're actively posting online, and which privacy-respecting browsers, search engines and settings to use to mitigate it.

Most of us see a great benefit in cautiously using the internet for a range of purposes; that doesn't mean we need or want our fridges and freezers to be monitored, controlled or switched off by companies or government whenever it suits them.

We would never have one.

From our American friends -

"SMART METERS have lithium ion batteries. When these batteries catch fire they have what's called "thermal runaway" where they will go from 140 degrees Fahrenheit to 6000 degrees Fahrenheit in just a few seconds.

The smart meter is connected to the copper wiring of the home which is designed to travel electricity due to its conductivity. Along with being conductive, the copper wires are also great at heat transfer via convection.

So when these supposed forest fires hit neighborhoods but burn more homes than trees, the culprit in the unusual fire forensics looks to be the lithium ion batteries.

It's no wonder these homes are burned to dust while trees are standing within feet of the houses.

These homes are burning from the inside out, literally. The copper wires in the homes are insulated and carrying extreme heat to every corner of the home.. Welcome to Agenda 2030 and its land grabs for Smart Cities."

• Matt Landman

Have you seen the cost of insulating a older home. Have you actually taken the time to look at the new building regs and what that entails for an older home.

I recently conducted a heat loss survey on a Victorian detachment home. The loft was converted in the 1970s so it needed an air gap, plus PIR board followed by another air gap then insulated plasterboard and finish. All the sub floors needed insulated which required all the floors and skirting boards out and a insulation with barriers either side. All the windows needed replacing with all the reveals needed insulating. The total cost to the homeowner was close to £40,000 and they still have solid walls...had the house been in renovation the building regs would require insulation on the walls which again would need air gaps etc....so our politicians have a huge problem....how do we fix our leaky homes and the answer is a single answer and will vary depending on the property type and also the climate where the house is.... because if you live in a wet region the lady thing an old home needs is insulation with no air gap.

I live in a 250 year old house and I've looked into varying kinds of wall insulation and the best solution is way beyond my budget and it would be cheaper to knock it down and build something from scratch

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

@dubsie No one is making you live there. Coat and cloth etc. However we are not going to pull houses down and a new one costs more than £40,000. If you cannot afford to live somewhere, you move. We’ve upgraded our house. Probably spent £40,000. It will pay for itself in the end plus its valuation is higher.

@Soontobe60 lithium ion batteries are in

Mobile phones
Button batteries and rechargeable batteries
Rechargeable lamps
Power banks
Laptops
iPads
Kindles
Rechargeable radios
TVs and remotes
And lots more including in most cars

Smart meters won't be adding much danger!!

You are missing my point, it won't be long before heating a older home becomes a real problem not just for low income but eventually those on good incomes. Give it ten year's and energy prices will have gained considerable upward momentum.

It makes sense to insulate now before it's too late but the big problem will be older homes. If you look at energy price projections it's staggering

You are missing my point, it won't be long before heating a older home becomes a real problem not just for low income but eventually those on good incomes. Give it ten year's and energy prices will have gained considerable upward momentum and will exceed wages as it is now.

Many restaurants, public houses are struggling already because as they are finding the customer base is shrinking as people are cutting their cloth.

Energy remains critical to national security and our politicians must decide how to make homes and businesses fit for this new market ...it can't be left to individual decisions.