Former colonies should be thankful for the empire

[username1478]

Britain’s former colonies should be thankful for the legacy of empire, not demanding reparations, according to the Conservative leadership candidate Robert Jenrick.

The MP and former minister said countries that were part of the empire “owe us a debt of gratitude for the inheritance we left them” in the form of legal and democratic institutions.

Jenrick made the comments in an article in the Daily Mail, pushing back against the growing momentum to provide reparations and justice to countries and people affected by transatlantic slavery.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/29/former-british-colonies-owe-debt-of-gratitude-robert-jenrick-reparations

Former colonies should be thankful for all the death inflicted upon them by the British. Many of them are still suffering from the harsh legacy of colonisation which was often deeply detrimental. Nevermind the brutality and inhumanity of the slave trade.

Be grateful people! You should be paying us.

What an utterly bad to say. Under Empire a vast amount of nations were brutally and forcibly colonised, millions of its people enslaved and forced into servitude, for generations to come, their nations and land plundered and ransacked for the glory and benefit of king/queen and country. The suffering, the pain caused by Empire, generationally so, is probably immeasurable. And yet those very descendants, of those enslaved and subjugated people, are meant to give thanks to the British? That is some messed up thinking.

It’s more complicated than that. Britain was once under the empire of Rome. We understand that approx 250,000 people died in various battles with the legions and approx 250,000 Britons were ensalved. This would have been a population of around 2 million, so this was a quarter of the population.

When the Romans reached Caledonia (Scotland)
the tribes formed and army and before the battle of Battle of Mons Graupius- Calgacus, the leader of the native celts , is reported to have said “in words like these."-
"You have not tasted servitude. There is no land beyond us and even the sea is no safe refuge when we are threatened by the Roman fleet....We are the last people on earth, and the last to be free: our very remoteness in a land known only to rumour has protected us up till this day. Today the furthest bounds of Britain lie open—and everything unknown is given an inflated worth. But now there is no people beyond us, nothing but tides and rocks and, more deadly than these, the Romans. It is no use trying to escape their arrogance by submission or good behaviour. They have pillaged the world: when the land has nothing left for men who ravage everything, they scour the sea. If an enemy is rich, they are greedy, if he is poor, they crave glory. Neither East nor West can sate their appetite. They are the only people on earth to covet wealth and poverty with equal craving. They plunder, they butcher, they ravish, and call it by the lying name of 'empire'. They make a desert and call it 'peace'"

The last line obviously became a very famous quote.

But we don’t view the Roman occupation in just one way, we look at also what was brought to Britain as well as what we lost.

A wider context is what should be acknowledged when looking at this issue. Perhaps that’s what he should have said.

One of the reasons these muppets lost the last election is that they played to the gallery of dingbat right wing element of their party in an attempt to stop them all scuttling off to vote for that bogey Farage. Their stance put off all the old school Tory folk.

Whether he believes what he's said or not he should realise that last time, trying this tactic and trying to out arsehole Badenoch is not going to win him party and/or voter support. He and Badenoch might as well go cosy up to Farage and let someone with a heart and brain have a go at reviving the shot bolt Conservatives.

The Australians and New Zealanders and Indians and Pakistanis and Sri Lankans and West Indians and South Africans should perhaps stop playing cricket, a nasty sport imposed on them by the vile British.

The British were I indeed very vile to the nations you mentioned. They forcibly colonised and plundered their lands, and placed the people of this land into general servitude, all for the glory of king/queen and country. Given how much was taken from these people, learning and playing a game from England is hardly any kind of trade off. Such utter nonsense.

But there isn’t a wider context. The people who were forcibly, and brutally, colonised and enslaved, having their land and wealth consistently plundered, for the benefit of king/queen and country, their descendants are now being told that they should be at least grateful for all the things that British forcibly introduced? It’s insane to think that there people, who walk along the corridors of power, in this country, who actually think like this. Who actually believe that Empire was a good thing, and that the world should be thankful for it.

So why isn’t the Roman Empire talked about in these terms in Britain?

Why do school children visit Roman forts, why do we teach Latin in schools? Why do we learn about their inventions of aqueducts and heated flooring ….

Why not solely teach that Britons were murdered raped and enslaved by the Romans. That their customs and languages were suppressed? Why not make this the example of empire?

Because it is still in living memory for so many people - the height of Empire was in 1922, when the country owned a quarter of the globe, with all the people in it. Today there are hundreds of millions of living descendants, who still very much feel the full negative force from the fall out of Empire’s plunder and colonisation. Shockingly in schools, children still do not learn the true history of Empire, as that its self is whitewashed.

The question about the Romans is a good one, and I’d suggest that the way in which ‘empire’ is taught, even to little children, ought to change. Yes, some useful things were introduced, but there were heavy heavy costs. Getting that basic idea clear from the start would make some of the conversations about more recent empires easier.

It's

May not be in living memory but it’s affects live on to this day. Our languages, our customs and religions all affected. The Scottish legal system is based upon Roman law. That’s how much influence the romans had.

So why don’t we teach only one view of the romans- that they raped, murdered and enslaved a quarter of the population and that we are still living with the effects of their occupation today?

Undeniably so, in the same way Vikings, in the same Normans did etc. Maybe we should definitely start teaching the much darker side of Roman occupation? There’s no reason not to, in the same way there’s absolutely no reason to continue teaching our children the white washed history of Empire, and continue to patronise those very people who are still feeling the ill effects of the Empire, in their everyday lives, but who are being told by the likes of Robert Jenrick that they should be thanking us for colonising them!!

But we don’t view the Roman occupation in just one way, we look at also what was brought to Britain as well as what we lost.

A wider context is what should be acknowledged when looking at this issue. Perhaps that’s what he should have said.

Oh I'm not sure wider context and nuance are Jenrick's strengths.

The two things are not mutually exclusive @Twistybranch

Yes, that element of our history should also be taught. Doesn't mean that what the British have done over the years is 'right' or defensible in any way.

What did the Romans ever do for us?..............

The darker side? There is only one side to empire remember.

Perhaps once this is the way our history is presented, only then Britain will be in a position to understand what Empire means to other nations.

Until then, looks like we will continue to look at the complexities of Empire with a wide lens, rather than a myopic one.

No but until we are taught that 1/4 of britons under the Roman Empire were murdered or enslaved. Until we are taught that out cultures and languages were lost. Until we are taught that there was no positives of the Roman Empire for Britain. Then we aren’t going to be in a position to understand why it’s important for other nations to speak out against the British Empire and refute the assertions that the empire brought progression.

Being enslaved and having your country plundered of resources is hardly something to be thankful for. Just demonstrates how vile that man is....

Those darned Romans! What have they ever done for us?

What did the romans do for us?

Reg : All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? Attendee : Brought peace? Reg : Oh, peace - shut up!

The southern hemisphere lot should definitely stop beating us at rugby 😂 the swines.

My obscurely written pleasure that international cricket is a GOOD THING in my opinion was received badly but there we are.

I was thinking about racism in cricket and also, on the other hand, the tolerance and respect between so many of the players. I've been trying to remember the name of the brown man who came to play cricket in England because apartheid wouldn't allow him to play at the level he could, in South Africa. It's taken about three days for the back of my brain to eventually go, 'Kerpow, Basil D'Oliviera'.