Homeless to have tents banned

[dubsie]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/suella-braverman-says-rough-sleeping-is-lifestyle-choice

No one wants to see people sleeping in tents in cities but what are homeless people meant to do. Given the choice I think I'd choose a tent over a shop door way or a park bench...and I don't think many people choose being homeless ....not a lifestyle choice for most people.

I think this is more the fact that people like this minister can't stand the sight of homeless people, it reminds them that their decisions have consequences

Resources have been cut and then cut again.

In my area they stopped overnight shelter when the temperature hits zero in the winter. They changed it to a hot evening meal then out you go at 9pm. This year they stopped the hot meal. I could fucking cry.

Barbaric indeed.

What is Braverman up to?
She is shifting the narrative. Even old Tory voters might have a heart somewhere so she is telling them it is a 'lifestyle choice'. That they don't want safe accommodation, they want to clutter up market towns with their tents !! Don't blame your government, blame the poor, blame the sick, blame the most vulnerable people.

When I read this morning I thought it had to be click bait but no she truly means it
I cannot stand this vile
Women she just gets worse
In my
Opinion
Disgusting

In London for nearly a decade they have relied on Churches to provide zero temperature accommodation.

i know become my nearest Church which is 5 minutes away had their clergy involved. They don't use the Church building as it is too cold. Then I found out one of my brothers started doing shifts at his more modern church building when his kids were teenage. (This is all mainstream protestant Christian denominations/sects.)

It's the usual Tory tactic of misdirection and also taking a hard line on the symptoms rather than the cause because its easier and looks decisive. It's much easier to say, "we said we'd ban tents and there are now 70% less of them, look how effective our policies are". Yep, good for you, you've shunted the problem elsewhere but it makes for a good soundbite doesn't it?

The fact is our systems are so fragmented and disconnected that we can't get to the root causes of homelessness. High-level policy just can't filter down and penetrate effectively at ground level. We've failed miserably at recognising what meaningful support for mental health and addictions looks like (for anyone, never mind the homeless). Housing policy is failing us and the economic cluster fuck were currently in is only going to make things worse for the foreseeable future. But yes, let's declare war on tents.

Alwaysanotherwine your post is spot on. I also don’t want to say what I do but I have extensive experience in homelessness and until people start being honest about what the real issues are and stop making up excuses and blaming policy makers solutions won’t be found.
The reality is there are people with very complex lives and no amount of money is going to fix this. The damage is done in childhood and it takes a holistic approach to deal with it.
Someone above said about young people not being able to return home- that may be true in some cases but actually in many cases it is teens who are out of control with parents who simply can’t manage them who then ask them to leave, as opposed to parents who are bad people (they are often vulnerable themselves). They then run away to cities as they are bored in more parochial areas and their problems escalate. That is the reality.

Also- many who have ended up on the streets have been evicted from temporary supported accommodation due to violence and risk to staff, making themselves intentionally homeless and removing the statutory duty to be housed.
again not popular but that is the reality.

Essentially attachment issues from early childhood are often the root causes of many of the problems that manifest further down the line and lead to people becoming street homeless. And fixing that is incredibly hard. But if they don’t engage with services you are fighting a losing battle.

I think it's too glib to think a flat is the answer to everything for a homeless person yes it's a start but many have a myriad of issues that need addressing so they keep their tenancy. It's just the usual conservative hate fest on the less fortunate. Haggling about the 20 quid a week extra uc payment during covid and these leeches spend more on expenses on eating out etc.

During covid, they managed to get pretty much everyone off the streets and in with a roof over their head. I don't for a second accept the 'lifestyle choice' Braverman has stated.

If she wants them off the streets, she already knows what needs to be done. And that it can work. She really is a repugnant individual.

This.

Suella Braverman is a disgrace.

Like a poster above pointed out...people have to be clean to get a shelter

Fair rents & housing maybe?

I tried calling on this. The chap told me that, as I was under pension age and had no dependent children, I was considered "able to survive on the street". Exact quote.

This was 15 years ago. Things have definitely not got better since then.

I lived in a b and b 30yrs ago and not the kind you go to on holiday. Three single beds per room. Sharing with people with drink and drug problems (mines was a penchant for amphetamine) and ten people sharing one bathroom. Honestly looking back I wouldn't have wished it upon my worst enemy.

And yet I have sat in a meeting with someone who was in a very vulnerable state and was told there was nowhere for him and he needed to go on the streets. It was hammering down outside. Absolutely hammering.

People end up on the streets too easily. Yes some stay there for complex reasons. That doesn’t make it a fucking lifestyle choice.

Glad to see there will be more support put into alcohol and addiction issues (not sure where LAs are meant to get the money for that from) - as soon as alcohol for example is involved you often cannot access mental health support (which will often be driving the substance abuse).

I collected someone from the streets once. He had been shown by other rough sleepers where to get a sleeping bag. When I have been past since I have seen sleeping bags and clothes left there. I think they must be left by a charity. I guess Suella will soon want to ban camping equipment like sleeping bags as well.

She has one of the strangest interpretations of Buddhism I've ever seen. Anyone but me remember when even Tories had SOME humanity? As for claims she's not doing this to be deliberately cruel, I can only presume that's from someone who hasn't been watching her track record.

@Tonkerbea you are completely right about the Tories, I keep thinking they can't get any worse and then they do.

@picturethispatsy Excellent questions, this is just a further example of the Tories wanting to sweep their own mess under the carpet.

@MCOut I agree with your thoughts on the rules, perhaps there needs to be some thought as to how the rules can be adapted to help those who need help to properly access it.

I wonder if her attitude would change if she spent a few days on the streets herself. The whole thing really makes me feel so sad and angry, why can't they just stop picking on the most vulnerable?! It just seems like bullying to me.

Having visited cities in Canada and Us where tent cities are a reality I agree we don't want that but to ban tents and not provide further help is barbaric.

Surely the issue with SB is there's no balance. Where's her initiatives, solutions to this?

A homeless person sleeping in a tent is almost certainly going to also have a complex set of interdependent issues which mean that their problems will not be solved by taking their tent away. It's true that there are generally enough spaces in hostels and shelters that no one needs to be in a tent, but it's also true that this solution simply doesn't work for everyone. These are real, complex people. Some of them will have significant mental health issues and trauma which make the communal living aspect of shelters impossible. Some of the people in shelters are a source of danger to others. If you are aducted to alcohol and substance abuse and the shelter has a policy to ban such substances you cannot just magically cure your addiction so the shelter is no shelter for you.

Banning tents is stupid. Funding social care and mental health resources sufficiently that no one gets to that level of rick bottom would be great. Obviously the tories won't do that.

@jgw1 you again with this. Those houses have owners and are not a free for anybody to take. However, if this ridiculous suggestion were the case the empty houses would be filled very quickly with what it now seem open borders. See the number of people that arrived in the last three years?

Well someone certainly makes an initial choice to take a first dose of spice, or whatever it is that has semi-corpses littering half the shop doorways of central Nottingham.

@YireosDodeAver is spot on.

I would add that the biggest thing that the police/politicians/society could do to help is to properly deal with domestic violence. DV as a root cause of drug and alcohol misuse, and then leading to homelessness was cited by a retired chief constable. What about it Suella?

My uncle was a rough sleeper for many years. My mum and he both suffered the long term effects on their mental health of being brought up by functioning but violent alcoholic parents during the blitz. My uncle also had an experience aged 11 that likely led to PTSD. He ended up being diagnosed with schizophrenia in his 40s. In those days there was about a 1 in 3 chance of the drugs to control schizophrenia having intolerable side effects and that 1/3 either committed suicide or ended up addicted to drugs or alcohol. My uncle was in that 1/3.

Which choice would you have made in those circumstances?

I know they were banned in London a while ago, because they were being used for drug deals, prostitution and a couple of people died in them, so although it was harsh, ultimately it was seen as better as if people were visible they could be helped.