Homeless to have tents banned

[dubsie]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/suella-braverman-says-rough-sleeping-is-lifestyle-choice

No one wants to see people sleeping in tents in cities but what are homeless people meant to do. Given the choice I think I'd choose a tent over a shop door way or a park bench...and I don't think many people choose being homeless ....not a lifestyle choice for most people.

I think this is more the fact that people like this minister can't stand the sight of homeless people, it reminds them that their decisions have consequences

@usernamealreadytaken where are these numbers coming from?

You clearly never talked to people who were kicked out of their homes as teens.

Some where lucky and found safe friends/acquaintances they could move in with while others weren't.

I have been learning over the last few months there are very good reasons why people do that.

Those numbers don’t surprise me tbh. I know Denmark has a very cruel approach to refugees.

The majority of immigrant workers in the UK may be skilled, but work in tertiary fields. The myth that most immigrant workers are net-contributors is because figures are skewed by fewer very high earners; most immigrants are net-recipients and although they may bring lots of benefits, direct financial contribution is not likely to be one of them (unless you buy in to the capitalist ponzu scheme that is growth simply because of numbers). Whether immigrants work or not is largely irrelevant; net immigration last year was over 500k and we simply cannot (and should not) build hundreds of thousands of homes every year to house what could be short-term visitors.

We don't build enough housing in the right places for long term UK residents, so hoe do you think enough housing will be built for short term immigrants?

I am seeing little evidence of that on mumsnet, or was her research just in those voters that she is interested in = Tory party members?

This is a neat example of Braverman's stupidity. A policy that is pretty much unenforceable, and that isn't even a vote winner.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/scandinavia-has-a-migrant-friendly-reputation-but-is-that-changing/

https://migrants-refugees.va/country-profile/nordic-countries/

In the interests of factual accuracy I would like to point out that in England alone there are estimated to be over a million empty homes.

That’s exactly my point. And whether we should is also relevant.

Suella Braverman is a twat of the highest order.

Nothing that comes out of her mouth should even warrant 10 seconds of brain space.

It is very much like Rishi's electric car announcement. Is a vote loser and also isn't actually ever going to happen because a) the manufacturers are already planning for 2030 and b) he didn't think to change the law so manufacturers could sell you an infernal combustion engine car anyway.

I think this is her preferred option.

I work in a city centre and I know that homelessness is not as easy as going to a shelter.

This. How this would even begin to be enforced us beyond me. What are the police going to do - rip the tent away and leave the homeless person in their sleeping bag on the ground? What would that achieve, even supposing it ever happened, which it won't?

It's just more pathetic calls to their voter base who love stuff like this.

God I bloody hate the lot of them. Just awful, awful people.

i kind of agree with her

i know a couple of people who work with homeless charities in liverpool

they say they have enough space and beds to house all homeless in area

but they have rules etc they have to abide by so people on drugs or who want to beg out of that area refuse their help

i also know people who have been homeless who say they have been offered endless supprt

i won’t say what i do work wise as it’s possible outing , but i know from my experience that a lot of homeless people are stuck due to drugs, relationships and historical behaviour

but it’s also true that if people like myself (no drugs, retraining orders etc) found ouraelves homeless tomorrow, we would have help and wouldn’t have to sleep in streets

Not sure where that figure comes from, but HoC figures don’t back that up.

The Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (DLUHC) publishes data on homes classed as empty for Council Tax purposes. In October 2022, there were 676,304 recorded empty homes in England. This is a 3.6% increase on the previous year’s total. 248,149 were classed as ‘long-term vacant’ properties (vacant for more than six months with some exceptions).

Local authorities already have powers under EHDMO, but few seem to use them and they are complicated. The LibDems did look in to this in detail a number of years ago.

Properties can be empty in the short-term for a myriad of reasons, it doesn’t make them available or suitable for homeless people, or in the right areas.

Local authorities and hence the government figures only record empty homes based upon council tax returns. Since one only gets a year's reduction in council tax if one gets a reduction for claiming a home is empty, the government figures are likely to be a signficant under-counting.
In fact some councils increase council tax for empty properties.

Whether the figure is nearly 700,000 or over a million that is still a lot of empty homes, and puts a lie to the UK having a housing crisis.

The UK does though have a housing distribution crisis.

What sort of Government Minister looks at the Britain of 2023 and thinks “You know, what’s really wrong with this picture is that homeless people are allowed to sleep in tents.”

Was there really nothing else on your desk Suella?

This is not true. There is a statutory duty for accommodation tk be provided for families with children, pregnant women and extremely vulnerable single people. And the threshold for vulnerable is so high it’s not what any ordinary person would consider vulnerable. So most of the people you see on the streets don’t have a statutory obligation owing to them.

This.
she’s a waste of space.
She should be ashamed of herself and her party for this comment and for what they’ve done to England in the last 13 years.
She should be embarrassed.
And why are they not looking at WHY so many people end up on the streets and what they can do to put an end to poverty/mental health problems etc in families.
Shame on you Tories.

Nobody 'wants' it anywhere! What we want is for people to be able to access affordable housing and support. You seem to be more concerned about commerce than human beings 🤷🏻‍♀️

Well said Tonkerbea, couldn’t agree more - and a massive fuck off from me too !

I’m going to need a source for this, because everything that I have found has suggested that immigrants are net contributors. The only thing that suggests that it might be otherwise is that it’s acknowledged there are gaps in the data. What you were saying does not make sense because a lot of immigrants do not have access to welfare services. Work visas, student visas, family visas all have restrictions.

Then re building homes, you are assuming that every migrant will need social housing. Firstly, that is not the case and secondly I specifically suggested a targeted approach, building houses for people who are homeless. At no point did I say that we should be building homes for every immigrant. It would not be necessary, most immigrants find housing via the private market, this is the case because they work. Hence working is relevant.

@Alwaysanotherwine do you think those rules might be part of the problem? On the surface, I understand why having them makes sense because you don’t want a shelter filled with delinquency but surely a person is going to be better able to deal with drugs/ mental health etc if they have a roof over their head. Similarly, it’s probably easier for services to support people with a fixed address.