The English electorate will never elect a progressive government

[inuet]

By the end of this Parliament in 2014 there will have been Conservative led governments for 32 of the 45 years that will then have elapsed since 1979, the latest being one of the most right wing. England will have taken the UK out of the European Union and it seems to me the English electorate gets ever more conservative, ever more insular and ever less tolerant of progressive, liberal ideas. If as is possible Scotland leaves the UK, it is hard to see how a party other than the Tories could ever win a majority or even enter coalition in the remaining UK. I can see the Conservatives and perhaps even a breakaway even more rightwing party winning election after election.

Maybe the other parties should get better leaders and listen to what some of their own members want/ wanted

There are a number of factors involved as I see it. Unfortunately, without a system of proportional representation, you end up stuck with two dominant parties and elections end up being about voting for the least awful of the pair (from one's perspective) rather than any positive endorsement.

And I think because of this two party dominance, the political rhetoric is very adversarial and each side has to move farther to the right or left to oppose the other. Most people want sensible, balanced, centrist policies, and cooperation. Yet it seems neither party can even bear to agree with the other. Electoral promises are about undoing what the other side has implemented, so it's just this back and forth without any real consensus taking place. Only broad consensus can help move things forward.

The UK, in general, is a relatively socially conservative society, but it also can be quite open and liberal in its 'live and let live' approach. A lot of progressive types tend to sneer and look down on those who don't share their values completely. They mock and denigrate those they disagree with, calling them racist and fascist. People have had genuine concerns for years on issues like immigration, but no discussion is allowed on such matters in progressive circles. It is absolutely 100% perfect, with no downsides or drawbacks. This is obviously not true because everything has its advantages and disadvantages, yet one side refuses to engage with the concerns of the general public and insults them, but also expects the same general public to vote for them! It's really hypocritical to denigrate someone and then express shock and outrage that they've decided to vote for the other party. Apparently the best way to deal with this outcome is to denigrate them even further, because next time they will really feel like voting for you.

This is a well-respected report on why many voters turned their back on the Labour party. I have not seen any genuine engagement from progressive types with the issues raised in the full report. It's definitely worth reading.

lordashcroftpolls.com/2020/02/diagnosis-of-defeat-labours-turn-to-smell-the-coffee/

Whatever you like to think, and however you like to stererotype people, England is not getting "ever more insular". And we are one of the most tolerant (and inclusive) countries in Europe.

I'll find links in a bit, but repeated European and British surveys have found this.

The UK will have taken the UK out of the EU. The nations didn't get a vote - every single person got 1 vote.

What do you mean by progressive?
Annual raise to minimum wage - Conservative
Same sex marriage - conservative
12 months parental leave - conservative
No new petrol/diesel cars by 2030 - conservative

That's because the current system is corrupt (Tory jobs for the boys, Cummings etc) and obsolete (FPTP). It has nowhere to progress to and must be revolutionised.

Minority fascist incompetent Tory govt got elected due to Labour having imploded several leaders ago, with about 22 million votes completely wasted (see Make Votes Matter, they know their stuff).

We urgently need PR, as pp said. Not a magic bullet, but it's a start.

What’s progressive and do we have any options, in reality?

We are historically a very politically conservative country, but that has advantages too. We haven't experienced the bloodshed of the French Revolution, the scourge of Nazism, the Communist revolution or the Yugoslavian civil war. In terms of history, we're regarded as a very stable nation. Hence the current concern about the Brexit situation in Northern Ireland - we do NOT renege on international treaties. It doesn't mean we can't adopt progressive policies - the birth of the NHS etc., but we've never been on the vanguard of politics, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

What do you mean by ‘progressive’?

We urgently need PR, as pp said.

Look at Holyrood and see what you might get with PR.

What, like Jeremy Corbyn you mean ?????

We would and we’ve tried but FPTP puts the kibosh on it.

I found this article an interesting read.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/left-behind-how-labour-betrayed-its-base/amp

It appears we are ever more insular, perhaps a reaction to our growing irrelevance on the world stage. Why can't this country look forward instead of hiding in its own pomp and circumstance. I hope we rejoin the european union in my life time. I hope my children's future is not irrevocably injured by the angry few who were too blinded by hate and so easily lead. Not great hopes for my middle years in 2020, it could have been so much more.

Eng123 it looks like you are the one blinded by hatred - of the UK.

We are already making trade deals, defence collaberation with France over new warships, Italy over warplanes and selling expertise to South Korea to help them build a carrier.

You have obviously swallowed the Remainer propaganda. Not everybody or even a majority rejected the EU because of xenophobia we rejected it because it wasn't going in a good direction. Everything was moving towards a superstate of the bland.

I hope your children will go up in a free country where mink farms are banned, force feeding geese is not allowed and rose veal is the only production method for that meat.

Hi Eng123, I'd recommend reading the article I posted. It might help in understanding the rationale behind some of the people you talk about.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/left-behind-how-labour-betrayed-its-base/amp

Blue Labour looks interesting. More centrist and unifying - a place for the traditional labour base.

@Eng123 I don't see it as insular at all. It's bold and brave and we will work globally in partnerships of our own making. I don't think we'll be the only one either, but we will have led the way.

I found this interview / conversation interesting. Seems to tie in with the topic of this thread.

The adverts / promos are a bit annoying, but they have to cover their costs somehow I guess. Anyway, lots of good points made in the video in my view.