About Labour's next leader

[OxfordCat]

So there'll be a battle between Momentum and the social democrats / centrists. I am totally against Long-Bailey who's been groomed as Corbyn mark 2 for a while now. I think she's awful. As much as I personally agree with the majority of views on MN and favour Kier Starmer, if I try to take myself out of my remain bubble for a minute and think about those northern leave voting 'wall' constituencies / Workington man etc etc, would they really go for Starmer? I'm not sure if they'd see him as another Westminster elite. (As they would Thornberry / Benn).

So thinking about how Labour can win back their 'heartlands' could Lisa Nandy be a goer? She voted remain but strongly sided with leave after the referendum (soft Brexit) and is from Wigan, popular with her constituents. A genuine human being, in it for the right reasons, articulate with quick intellect.

However she is a woman! Which the gammon might not like...

We won't know for sure until the NEC meets to decide on the rules for the contest.

I'd guess you're in with a chance if you join now.

All sorts of shenanigans going on - but worth a go, since contest is slated to be in Spring.

I'm aware I'm talking to myself but ...

This article is interesting - and mentions 'not patrinising' voters:

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/108571/jon-trickett-says-labour-must-never-again-be-led

I realise Trickett and others on the Left are positioning Ling-Bailey for Leader - but, honestly, 'ordinary' voters feel patronised by her.

I know the Left despise Nandy because they see her as the enemy - but her constituents don't.

I’ll have a go. I’m gutted for the more vulnerable in society, but I think labour got it wrong with a lot of their policies and needs a much different leader than JC. I hope they learn from this, but I fear they won’t

I’ve just seen Nandy on the tv, I really warmed to her and feel voters may do, too.

I'm increasingly of the mind that it really mustn't be Jess Phillips, Keir Starmer or Rebecca Long-Bailey.

Too divisive, for a start.

I'm really hoping people will choose Lisa Nandy.

The big problem is that Labour cannot win unless it moves to the centre. Getting back a few firmer Labour constituencies won’t help. They need many more constituencies where there are differing views to that of Momentum and the policies of this election. Unless these are won, forget power. You cannot do anything without power. So reduce the total list of giveaways and be more nuanced.

Labour hadn’t win since TB. There will be a need to go back to centrist policies but Momentum won’t allow that so they are stuck.

I thought Lisa Nandy came across well on the TV but her article in The Guardian was a bit lacking in policies, priorities, anything concrete really.
If Labour moves to the centre, it can't win. TB could move them to the centre because he could rely on the people who had always voted Labour to stay with the party even when the policies changed. But they don't have that safety net now. If people from traditional Labour families are faced with a choice of four centrist parties (Tories; Labour; Green; LibDem), they have no reason to return to Labour.

Yes.
Dilemma facing Labour is to keep votes it has, get back those it lost, attract new votes.

It's tricky.

But - while I love and admire them - Momentum has issues. It does drive people away, as much as it attracts others.

I think people are wrong to see the 'centre' as the place Blair was in years ago.

I see 'the centre' as a place where all the different groups who might have a stake in voting Labour can come together.

Identifying all those groups, then working out how to bring them together, is pretty crucial.

I would like to hear a Leadership candidate talk about that.

And, for the record, Rebecca Long-Bailey is not, to my eyes, the candidate to do that.

I think some on the Left see her as the last defence against Blairism.

But Blairism (wtf is that, anyway?) is dead - and R L-B is Labour's equivalent of Jo Swinson.

That last post made me sound more anti-Momentum than I am.

I think I may mean that people find the idea of Momentum off-putting. 🤷‍♀️

Momentum is/are people. And pretty great people at that.

hard to love momentum after that election night performance from Jon Lansman - energising the base and tweets about young people voting didn't pay off in seats in any way. Politics.co.uk is saying if you join labour today/soon you should have a say in the labour leadership.

None of the contenders other than Jess Phillips has enough centrist appeal, they're too associated with Corbyn. It took a long time to get from Michael Foot to Tony Blair, years of rebuilding of electability, we may be looking at another interim leader and another loss without drastic change. The worst result since 1935 (1935!!) we may need to now have realistic expectations on how fast that'll get turned around.

The leadership should be open to anyone that will pay a fee to have a say in it.

I don't think Nandy or Starmer for that matter are associated with Corbynism. Nandy resigned in protest and both have been highly critical.

Everything you need to know about joining Labour and voting for a Leader.

go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2019/12/16/labour-leadership-election-who-can-vote-and-how-does-it-work

Keir Starmer the bookies favourite and would be formidable opponent for Johnson. Also like nandy and Cooper.

I like Phillips & Rayner good at debating - good cabinet members.

Not Rebecca Long Bailey - too associated with Corbyn.

A big problem with Nandy is that she is a bit 'born to rule'.

I do wonder if Labour voters are a bit tired of that.

I suppose it depends on how she works with that. If she tries to pretend otherwise, I can't see it going down well.

Interesting that Starmer is the bookies' favourite. I think there may be an all-women shortlist - if not explicitly, then implicitly - so I'm not sure how that will work.

Can’t see Keir Starmer has the charisma though, Blair could persuade people. KS failed to win people round to trust labour on brexit so say that would be another choice that wouldn’t be good enough.

I worry about the female selection too - it’s harder for most female leaders to win. I know there are exceptions like Sturgeon and Thatcher but given the mountain to climb now, I can’t see Nandy having enough cross over appeal. I hope I’m wrong obviously.

I think Starmer may be too associated with the second referendum policy to represent a change. Jess and RLB both leave me cold. Yvette did a shockingly bad webchat on here once and I can't quite forgive her for it.
I like Angela Rayner but don't know where she sits in regards to Momentum, etc, and how that will influence the membership.

Angela Rayner is close friends with Rebecca Long-Bailey and seen as both close to the Corbyn project and quite malleable.

Now, I don't know how true that is - particularly the last bit (which seems a bit 'off' to me: sexist and classist).

This thread is reminding me that a lot of the front-runners leave me quite cold.

Part of the problem for me is that I'm not entirely convinced by any of them. And I don't actually view any of them as strong enough to cut ties with everything that went wrong and wrestle the party to a new direction.

I'm hoping for a wildcard to suddenly throw their hat in the ring.

thecatfromjapan you should stand on a MN manifesto - throw the cat amongst the pigeons

They all have their issues. I just had a look at the comments section of a tabloid. All hated of course but the women have an extra layer of misogyny against them.

I'm not sure KS will be tainted too much - Brexit flip flopping was more a problem than having an ideal and sticking to it.

Now that Brexit's going to happen someone like KS who is all over the detail might be a huge asset.

I can't really see public warming to RLB.

Maybe there is an interesting wildcard out there!

@thecatfromjapan what do you mean by "born to rule" re Nandy?

Just that her background is pretty elite - and ...

But, as I said, I think what matters is how she wears that, and what she does.

I don't think voters like posh Lefties who appear to be LARPing, so none of that, please.

I really want someone competent - and they are going to have to be. Realistically, we will lose the next GE, and possibly the one after that. So this Leader needs to focus on repairing the house (of the Labour Party).

I like the fact she's been using Twitter to make moves towards Momentum, making it clear she liked the direction of travel policy-wise (& isn't planning a sudden swerve to the right).

That shows she has sense, and understands what needs to be done, with regard to Labour's voter and member base.

And I'm particularly impressed she's doing it now, when people aren't being so gracious to many of the Corbyn-supporting members and voters. It would have been way easier to join in with the recrimination - and she isn't doing that.

Whoever is Leader really, really needs to build and extend Labour.

And, after the GE result we had, we can't afford to lose and alienate members.

They have a real task, though. The GE result is a massive, massive wound. ☹️

I know a lot of Corbyn people loathe Nandy because of her support of Owen Smith when he opposed Corbyn - but I think she really gets that we need to go forwards together.

I don’t think the policy direction of travel was the issue either, more they had too many polices they lost credibility and needed to demonstrate super competence to turnaround years of underfunding.

You could de-prioritise things like renationalising and rationalise sone policies without changing direction and give more detail on how key ones are achievable