Is Ed Miliband responsible for the state we are in?

[IdaBWells]

By running against his brother for party leader, changing the rules to vote for Labour leadership (enabling Corbyn's rise) and refusing to support Cameron in Obama's desire to move into Syria I read an article that blamed Brexit and Trump on Ed. Is this reasonable to make one person responsible for so much?

Yes the article has no great analysis, I was just throwing it out there to get a sense of how MN readers felt. Amazing what ancient history it all feels now.

Yes, it seems like a long time ago. I think Tory supporters will scramble around trying to blame someone else for the mess they have made. However, EM is not responsible. The Tory party are.

I should explain I was out of the country and not paying much attention to the Miliband brothers rise so really don't know much about them at all. I was doing background reading for my own enlightenment and that's when I decided to start this goady thread.

I actually blame the rise in deregulation in the financial markets for the mess we are in, including Brexit.

Investment bankers were given far far too much leeway to gamble. As a result, they grew bloated and when they fucked up (sub prime mortgages and associated complex financial instruments), governments felt they had to bail them out.

Thus followed the $trillions bailouts by American, European and the Bank of England.

Money was sucked out to prop up banks. Leaving the rest of us with austerity and fractions in politics.

It’s a fucking mess and people are still trying to pin the blame on the wrong individuals.

Saskia I would disagree with you there as Ed was the Labour leader when they lost the election to Cameron.

EM was a pivot, the union's put him there.
David M would have won hands down, so many of us were seriously thinking of voting for him, and I am a Tory
I well remember that night, Ed bought out that ten foot stone tablet, so sure he would win. The party was planned , food drink all laid out....that was how sure he was of wining....
The shock from DC when he had to hold the EU vote... .

Ida I agree with you. I think Ed destroyed the Labour party's electability and since then it's been a slow but terrifying descent into right wing nuttery. Having no electable centre left party means Boris will rule. Terrifying 😔

Does anyone know if the Milibands still speak to each other?

Yes Iggly I would absolutely agree that economic uncertainty is at the root of our current political mess. So much of the world is suffering the ongoing effects of the financial crisis (that is only papered over). Large majorities of people in the west are experiencing financial insecurity and fears about their financial future and this is stoking so much of the rise of populism.

The risk has been transferred to the general population while those doing the gambling are reaping the benefits. "Privatizing profits and socializing losses".

Ida I don't think that was his fault. By that point Labour had had that long run in power, people had become disillusioned with them, especially after Blair and the Iraq war, then the financial crash left so many people so much worse off, and the Tories were quick to blame Labour for that. Labour were in the same unelectable position the Tories were in during the late 90s and early 00s. I don't believe they would have won that election with or without Ed.

As someone living abroad I have been surprised to see the Social Democrats rising from the ashes, despite Cleggs massive betrayal of students. Do you think it is because people are willing to give them a chance as there really isn't anyone else if you don't want to vote Tory? Is it because they are the only ones pro-Europe and openly Remain?

Surely it's Tony Blair's fault? (If I'm following the theory...) Ed as labour leader couldn't be seen to support any kind of war because of TB's actions. Also if TB hadnt gone ahead with the Iraq war then ISIS couldn't have gotten such a strong hold over Syria and then there wouldn't have been a refugee crisis.

I may be biased as I liked Ed. I miss Ed. Now I'm all nostalgic

You mean the Lib Dem’s? I think there are two factors

• only safe home for remainers
• can take the middle ground that Labour stupidly abandoned post Blair.

Also if TB hadnt gone ahead with the Iraq war then ISIS couldn't have gotten such a strong hold over Syria

That assumes US wouldn’t have done it anyway

No I blame Cameron for giving into a referendum without giving serious thought or having a plan on how Brexit could be delivered without risking peace in NI, the breakup of the UK and serious economic consequences.

True the US might have gone ahead creating a refugee crisis but Labour would have remained a palatable party instead of a blood thirsty one that ignored a protest of a million people.

Do you think it is because people are willing to give them a chance as there really isn't anyone else if you don't want to vote Tory? Is it because they are the only ones pro-Europe and openly Remain?

Yes OP, it's now LDs, Greens as the Lab and the Tories are basket cases and people now have greater concerns than student fees.

It might be an idea to check the name of political parties first

DC never though he would win.
If he did, Nick was supposed to be part of the deal and stop him....
So DC didn't want to be a liar so did it, you expecting to win....
Not sure but didn't he say he would stay and take us out... Then ran away ..

Sorry Bellini I'm like, the yellow ones! When I was a nipper we only had the Liberals (who nobody voted for) until Shirley Williams' lot and then ever since I keep forgetting who they are. Isn't it the Liberal Democrats? Who are they? What did I call them?

The Brexiters are also getting a pretty good chunk on their own.

You called them the Social Democrats. That party hasn't existed for many many years.

Ohhhh that's right mummy the polls were expecting a hung parliament and you're absolutely right Cameron could blame Clegg for preventing a referendum. He didn't have the guts to stand up against the Eurosceptics in his own party. Historically Cameron will very likely go down as the worst PM ever. Of course he is always financially insulated from the outcome of his own decisions.

so who were they? Did they merge with the Liberals?

SDP and Liberals merged ages ago. Since then they’ve also picked some interesting leaders.

Yes they merged. Most people on here would be far to young to remember.

So many of you are right that the refugee crisis in the Middle East was set in motion a very long time ago by Blair. What about the first Iraq war with George Bush Senior. Who was our PM? Maggie or John Major?