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Politics

To the Preachy Labour Supporters

39 replies

TooTiredAgain · 08/05/2017 08:40

Since the local election result, I have read many messages on social media insulting me, as a Tory suporter. Apparently I am self-seeking and should be ashamed of myself. Usually these threads hint that I obviously don't care about poor or disabled people.

It should no longer be acceptable for these preachy self-rightious Labour sympathisers to get away with making inaccurate, hurtful, sweeping generalisations, as if it's the acceptable norm.

Every Tory supporter reading those posts - including the ones who struggle financially to get by each month, the ones with disabilities, the ones that do a lot of charitable work (and there are lots and lots of them judging by the numbers who voted Tory; I personally know many) also read that they are self-seeking and should be ashamed of themselves.

Why do you think that all Tory supporters are wealthy? You are wrong, of course.

Let me explain why I voted Tory.
The thing that I am most concerned about is the National Debt. We are constantly debating how there is not enough money to go around, making cuts, arguing about where money should be spent, etc, beause the country does not recieve enough income to provide adequately for things.

The National Debt repayments and borrowing are spiralling out of control. Future generations will have to pay for the damage that this causes to the economy - the poorest and most needy people will be hit the hardest by any economic hardship this causes (there are lots of articles of the net that predict what will happen).

When the Tory's came to power they said they wanted to get the debt under control. That meant being cautious about spending, and there would be cuts. Labour suggested they would continue to borrow and did not talk about tackling it. I don't like everything the Conservatives do, but ALL parties do things that hurt people because money is short (Labour's ended Student Grants, introduced Student Loans, for example). Realistically only two viable parties; it's not like we have lots of choice.

[Read my post below if you want an explanation of why recent reports - written by angry Labour supporters - that Conservatives have made the debt worse than Labour are inaccurate]

I knew that the Tory's austerity would affect my living standards along with others. We are not a well-off family and struggle as it is, by the way. But If the debt continues to grow, cuts to the most needy sectors of society (along with all sectors) will get worse and worse.

Please explain why MY reason for voting makes me self-seeking? People vote the way they do, for lots of reasons. YOU DON'T KNOW THEIR REASONS OR CIRUMSTANCES, so don't make assumptions.

Paradoxically, the Labour supporters that preach and insult on my Facebook feed, happen to all be very very well off. That's irony for you. I wonder if they do anything significant for charity, or do they just waste energy verbally attacking Tory voters on social media?

OP posts:
ClashCityRocker · 08/05/2017 08:45

I thought the tories had doubled the national debt?

TooTiredAgain · 08/05/2017 08:48

This will be quick - I have to take my kids to school.
Recent article about Conservatives borrowing more money that Labour ever (and on average), written by an angry Labour supporter...........

Fails to take into consideration - the affects of the 2008 crash.
After the crash, understandably, there has been a need to borrow much more money. We are still living under that 2008 cloud.
LABOUR borrowed considerably more money in a single year, than any other year in history, following the crash. Then, a Conservative government took over - which has continued to borrow a relatively medium/high amount each year.

The fact that there have been considerably more years of Tory government following the crash means that the statistics will of course show that the Tory's have borrowed more. It skews the results.

If Labour had been in power these past 7 years, they would also have had to borrow more because of the crash. They may have borrowed EVEN MORE. We DON'T KNOW. We DO know that they have openly suggested they do not consider controlling borrowing a priority.

OP posts:
squishysquirmy · 08/05/2017 12:37

What about me?
I'm very preachy but I'm probably not voting Labour (SNP probs. Would vote Lib Dem if they had a chance in my area.
Am I "acceptable"?

squishysquirmy · 08/05/2017 12:40

And I don't trust this bunch of Tories with the economy much: Apparently, you don't need a load of numbers on a piece of paper to have an economic assessment.

AtrociousCircumstance · 08/05/2017 12:43

Tory policies attack and undermine those most in need in our society and bolster the super rich.

If you're ok with that ethically you've got a screw loose.

shakeyospeare · 08/05/2017 12:44

I don't understand - why would you vote Tory if you are already struggling. Do you think the current government care about the little people?

What's wrong with well off people voting Labour?

Sorry, OP, your post seems a little goady, a contradiction in terms, and just so you know, austerity isn't working.

Go and watch this.

www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/?fref=nf

Deranger01 · 08/05/2017 12:46

You've got to ignore the preachy ones on fb - I don't know why we moved to people castigating people they know about politics thanks to social media. My friends posting that you can't be a nice person and vote Tory just makes me feel alienated from them. Who does it help? Not going to change my vote or theirs, but obviously must be making them feel somehow superior.

there are plenty of moderates voting conservative and none of us are up for wrecking the NHS, killing or institutionalising the disabled or any of the other things we are supposed to be voting for, according to Corbyn supporters.

I wish the tories were running on a ticket of putting up taxes to increase funding services we already have though. Not Corbyn's ridiculous policies, just some sensible tax changes to provide extra funding that don't have to be borrowed.

Theworldisfullofidiots · 08/05/2017 12:49

The reason the national debt is so bad is because of austerity.
Read Mark Blyth's book. He is British and an economics professor at Harvard.

AtrociousCircumstance · 08/05/2017 12:50

You may not be up for wrecking the NHS or pressuring disabled people to suicide, but that's what you'll be voting for if you vote Tory. It may not be what motivates your vote but it will (continue to) follow from your vote.

TooTiredAgain · 08/05/2017 12:52

Squishy - Should anyone be being spiteful to others because of their voting choices? Calling them basically selfish when they don't know their reasons for voting? No.

I think the national debt will harm people and this country a lot more in the future , than anything the Tories are doing now. It will harm the 'little people' as you put it, much more. That does not make me self-seeking. I feel I am voting for the common good. I voted for the party that I believed would try to do the best for everyone over the long-term.

You may disagree, but that's what I believe. I think the spitefulness has got to stop.

OP posts:
TooTiredAgain · 08/05/2017 12:56

TheWorldIsFulOfIdiots - I bet he is also a Labour supporter, or leans to the Left. That's rubbish. Look at the graphs that show when the borrowing first really spiked. This ridiculous spending started after the 2008 crash - by Labour and before austerity.

OP posts:
deranger01 · 08/05/2017 12:58

That's just nonsense, the tories are not running on a wreck the NHS manifesto. You feeling that's the effect of my vote is merely your view, and not a reasoned case.

I'm aware that austerity was controversial amongst economists - some supported it and some didn't, as you'd expect from a complex situation. You can't quote one Harvard economist and say 'see, austerity all bad'. Scotland was somewhat protected from austerity and its economy is doing far worse than the U.K. In general.

The Facebook preaching has got to get a lot better if you hope to convert anyone - what do I think Corbyn would achieve? The hike in the min wage = job losses. I don't think he's competent to govern anything well.

squishysquirmy · 08/05/2017 12:59

I agree that the nasty comments are unpleasant, and very counter productive.
But, I do think that there is a subtle difference between calling a decision stupid, selfish, or wrong, and calling a person stupid or selfish simply for the way they vote.
The former may be unpleasant to hear, but I don't think it is beyond the bounds of acceptable debate.
The latter is nasty, and I would like it to stop, but I accept that I can't control others. If the language veers off into hate speech, or death threats then obviously that is illegal and should be shut down, but there are some fine lines to tread: I wouldn't want to see language banned just for being spiteful.

TooTiredAgain · 08/05/2017 13:02

Do you also really think that Labour will do everything they say they will? Not a chance. If they do, they will have to borrow tons more to do it - more than the Conservatives have borrowed - because there is no spare money to shower into the NHS. If you listen to all sectors of Society - there is not enough money for any public provision.
Part of the reason that there is no spare money is because we are making ridiculous debt repayments.

OP posts:
Deranger01 · 08/05/2017 13:06

The biggest problem for Corbyn's supporters is that name calling is not effective at winning people over, really, and that's why it's a bad plan. It is also clear some people saying horrible things to Tory voters are scared and they deserve sympathy and understanding. I do care that they are scared of 5 more years of May, and I wish the Labour leadership hadn't left them down so bloody badly.

soapboxqueen · 08/05/2017 13:11

I don't like the venom from some people either and they come in all varieties. I think we just tend not to notice the ones that we broadly agree with.

However, if you want to vote tory and pretend they are going to help the poor, disabled, the NHS, education or anything else you are perfectly entitled to do so. You'd just be incorrect since all evidence points to the contrary.

Yes labour are a shower. Everyone else is too small to really matter. I ain't deluded. WinkGrin

GraceGrape · 08/05/2017 13:12

Perhaps the Tories wouldn't need to borrow as much if they hadn't reduced tax receipts by cutting the top rate of tax.

soapboxqueen · 08/05/2017 13:14

Or wasted millions on free schools

muckypup73 · 08/05/2017 13:16

The trouble with Corbyn is he seems to think he has a money tree and he hasnt, I have had people slagging me offf left right and centre because I have said I am not voting for Corbyn, he is a fool, I wonder when he will offer the poor 3 gold bars to vote for him, he seems to be telling people what they want to hear with no substance behind it. I have been a lifelong Labour voter and I resent anyone having a go at me because I dont want to vote for a muppet and especially one whos deputy cannot do maths!

squishysquirmy · 08/05/2017 13:17

I stole this from another thread, which in turn was stolen from twitter I think:

To the Preachy Labour Supporters
squishysquirmy · 08/05/2017 13:18

Its an "honest" labour poster. Grin
Much better at convincing those unsure of Corbyn than insults and name calling, I think.

Bobbydeniro69 · 08/05/2017 13:20

I try not to be insulting to the very few Tory supporting acquaintances I have on social media. Belittling , sarcastic posts just get peoples backs up.

At work I don't know anyone that would vote conservative - as I work in a university it would be like a turkey voting for Christmas - but if there was I would try and have reasonable conversation with them. As it is there are many interesting conversations held between Greens, Lib Dem & Labour supporters.

I'm sorry you feel preached to TooTired; you are of course entitled to vote conservative if that is what your heart and mind tell you to do.

The obvious problem is , with sites like MN, is that a large proportion of members use an underfunded NHS, have kids that go to underfunded schools or are scraping by on DLA payments that are trying to be taken away from them. These areas are not priorities for the Conservative party, just as looking after big business and reintroducing grammar schools are not priorities for the Labour party.

Theworldisfullofidiots · 08/05/2017 13:21

tootiredagain actually why don't you read his book and decide for yourself. Why dismiss his theories before you have even read them because he might be left leaning? (He is fairly apolitical in his book by the way). By dismissing him before you even know aren't you just doing what you accuse others of?
There are very few economists (whether right or left) that think austerity is a sound economic policy.

stumblymonkeyreturns · 08/05/2017 13:23

But the Tories cut taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the vulnerable.

So basically they're happy to reduce the National Debt by penalising the poor but they are not happy to reduce the National Debt by taxing the wealthy.

If you're in favour of managing the National Debt how does this logic sit with you?

I could understand if their policy was to reduce benefits and increase taxes for the wealthy. But it isn't?

The Lib Dems for example argue that they would improve support for the NHS by raising tax by 1p. That's how you improve services without increasing National Debt.

And FWIW I'm a top 2% earner, the Tories are planning to reduce part of my tax next year (corporation tax) when I would be willing to pay more tax.

Deranger01 · 08/05/2017 13:25

I know a few working at universities that don't want tuition fees scrapped and a return to being woefully underfunded bobby!

squishy see now that sort of thing does have me rethinking. If I could be sure JC was not going to be PM.

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