Best article EVER on Trump win

[RhodaBull]

Just read this and it really hits the nail on the head. And I am "blue" fwiw...

www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

quencher, thanks for that link too

Well, it maybe a failure of imagination on my part, but I find it impossible to see the infamous UKIP queues of refugees poster as anything other than a blatant attempt to stir up racial hatred, and Farage clearly endorsed it. If he's not a racist, he's got a funny way of showing it.

quencher you have my post about Beyonce entirely backwards. Beyonce was belting out Independent Woman etc when she was late teens / early 20s. No idea if she still walks the talk but the politics of hip hop culture and lyrics is for another thread.

I was referring to Hillary in Operation Good Wife coattail mode hanging on to her powertrip at all costs. If you watched the Weiner programme on BBC4 this week you would surmise that Huma only finally dumped him when she realised he was a busted flush going nowhere.

As a woman of independent disposition it offends me beyond belief that HC would assert any woman would vote to give her an unconstitutional 3rd term in the White House simply because she is a woman. Add to that the fact that her much acclaimed experience is largely gleaned from a lifetime hitched to sleazebag Bill and co and I struggle to see how anyone could vote for her.

Oh and everything quencher's link asserted about Hillary and Bill too.

I'm sure that the vast majority of people who voted on both sides of the Brexit referendum did so out of strong conviction. But statistically speaking if 1.8% of the 35 million people who voted had been stay instead of leave then it would have gone the other way and you'd have to think that there might have been a different result on a different day. My views on this are very much influenced by the fact that we in Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty in the 2008 referendum and then resoundingly voted for it the 2009 referendum.

The thing is that people still don't get why people voted the way that they did.

On here you still get "why won't those that voted Brexit talk to me?" yet they have forgotten the (god knows how many) weeks of abuse that thise that voted for Brexit got on here, and there are still loads on here that trot out the name calling BS.

But one thing that Brexit and the Presidential elections have taught me is that those that shout about being against bigotry are often bigots themselves.

M0stlyHet - I've had another look at the infamous poster. What's racist about it? It's factual. Unopposed immigration is one of Farage's points, and it is the 'Merkel queue' that he chose as an illustration. Just shown it to my father - who does not see the racism either, and he is from overseas.

Could it be that you are upset about the reality of numbers heading to Europe but your ideology prevents you having an honest reaction?

Could the poster have been an attempt - gone wrong - to imitate the famous 'labours not working' poster? That's what it brought to mind, to me. But I'm a leaver so maybe I'm hard of thinking.

South He said in several interviews over the years that he didn't want to have to do it, but in around 2007/2008, he said that he wasn't sure the right man/woman to do the job was there, and so he would be open to running eventually.

"On here you still get "why won't those that voted Brexit talk to me?" yet they have forgotten the (god knows how many) weeks of abuse that thise that voted for Brexit got on here, and there are still loads on here that trot out the name calling BS."

Yeah, whilst I know that anyone who voted Bexit is a racist, sexist ignoramus I'm going to value signal my liberal tolerance by condescending to hold a one sided dialogue and berate them into understanding their stupidity. Seeing as the result was close I think that educating a single voter would soothe my angst and reconvince myself that it was a mistake.

What? No replies?? Can't imagine why. :D

'Yeah, whilst I know that anyone who voted Bexit is a racist, sexist ignoramus I'm going to value signal my liberal tolerance by condescending to hold a one sided dialogue and berate them into understanding their stupidity. Seeing as the result was close I think that educating a single voter would soothe my angst and reconvince myself that it was a mistake.'

Great paragraph Spin. So true!

The poster was racist - it bore a more than coincidental similarity to this Nazi propaganda.

I really don't know how you can defend that as not racist.

How's it racist to want tighter immigration laws, Captain? I must be missing something, because the two are not connected for a lot of people.

The poster is racist. The Sun describing migrants as a 'swarm' is racist. Wanting tighter controls on immigration is not racist. But the poster is.

Would the poster, in your opinion, be racist if it featured white people?

When it comes to racist ads the EU takes some beating

The poster is racist because it very clearly echoes Nazi propaganda. How can anyone possibly defend it?

Ok, this is a highly emotive poster - the image and the large text reading 'Breaking Point' dominate it. The emotions it seems to evoke, from the framing which suggests a never ending stream of people to the prominent text, are those of fear and intolerance. It presents a group of people, who are dispossessed and seeking help, as a threat. In order to suppress our sympathy for their (undeniably awful) plight, it has to dehumanise and 'other' them - that's how racism works. You have to present the people as a homogeneous mass, different to your target audience and dangerous towards them - in this case,it's the phrase 'Breaking Point' which hyperbolically conveys an immediate and extreme crisis, which of course evokes panic and worry. It is not designed to stimulate reasoned discussion. It is not attempting to present facts for calm and considered debate. It is fearmongering. It promotes division. It incites hostility. It is not Farage bringing the question of immigration, listening to counter arguments against his own viewpoint and coming up with solutions. It deploys well-used racist techniques to produce an emotional response.

"When it comes to racist ads the EU takes some beating youtu.be/5SYwV9034kM"

Urghhh... My eyes! What did I just watch?

Blackbeard,

So, would it be racist if it were white people?

I am not sure what your point is when asking if the skin colour of the people featured on the poster affect whether or not it is racist. My point is that this poster incites intolerance against a group of people based on their origin. Do you consider the Nazi images to be racist? If so, how is this image different, given that it's virtually identical?

Looks more like subtitled newsreel footage to me than a poster... I've certainly never heard of such a poster and it doesn't look like any other propaganda posters. Pretty tenuous connection you are making...

Interesting that you aren't keen on answering the question though, no?

It's stills from a Nazi documentary. It isn't a poster, it's part of a whole film produced to incite racism. So it comes from moving footage of a very similar queue with racist sentiments expressed over the top of it. I can't see how the comparison is tenuous. It's virtually identical - one is a poster, one is a film. Both express the same sentiments with the same image and similar language.

In terms of answering your question, I don't think it makes sense. The poster is inciting racism against a group of non-white people. If you changed the faces to white, then it wouldn't be about these migrants against whom Farage is inviting intolerance. I mean, it's about these particular refugees - change them to a different group of people also singled out because of their race and yes, it's still racist. But which people would it be if it was white people? That's what's confusing me. Are you just asking me if I think racism against white people is possible?

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another Blackbeard. And a film, I somehow doubt it is even a well known one, has little to do with a poster. Also 'breaking point' has almost no connection to labelling people as parasites.

Holy tenuous connections batman!

What are you on?

The film doesn't have to be well known. What is well known is that Nazis used racist propaganda and whilst I'm not claiming that this poster is directly based on that film my point is that it's the same tactics. Parasites on a host damage it - breaking point implies that these people are irrevocably damaging the host country - I can't see how that is tenuous. The sentiments are the same.

I don't believe that all Leave voters or all Trump voters are racist. But both campaigns used some racism. I don't see how it benefits anyone to deny that this poster is racist - it's this which makes it easy for people on the opposing side to then start casting accusations that Leavers or Trump voters are racist. I think it's more powerful to acknowledge that this poster was ill-advised, that it appealed to racist sentiments and that it shouldn't have gone ahead because it devalues the argument about immigration and refugees by tarring it with extremely unpleasant associations.

But we clearly disagree and I have to go out now. Also, it's Brickbeard btw.