Corbyn Speech

[claig]

Very well delivered. No spin, no pregnant pauses, no coached phoney hand gestures. A couple of flat jokes written by teenage whizzkids from Oxbridge, but that is to be expected. Very natural, totally unaffected, a refreshing change from what we are used to. Modernisers now face real competition.

Awww shucks claig, you need a new hero mate.

P.S. If you had the ability to know facts from fiction, you wouldn't yet again, pick the wrong 'orse in a contest.

P.P.S. I will now go back to my demure non self promotion self.

Isit , you certainly haven't handed my arse back to me, in fact you have failed to answer any questions.

Go back to the first post, my point was actually that Tories who claim "Labour always mess up the economy" have short memories, you haven't refuted any of the points I brought up about that.

Are you a politician or a SPAD? You seem to answer what you want not what is asked.

because of the Thatcher yada, yada, yada.

Yeh blame Thatcher, blame the 1997 onward Tory opposition who unlike Brown, DID NOT form a 1997 regulatory tripartite - but like everyone else told Brown not to sell our gold at a 20-year low - so Brown was really big on taking advice.

The Tories sacked the FSA Brown formed and put the BoE back in power, with new powers to stop not explanatory bubbles forming, made the Uk Trasury honest by forming the OBR - but NONE of that brings back the Northern Rock, the Co-op bank.

longtimelurking .... so there were Tory measures; why don'y you quit now while claig no doubt thinks the sun still shines outa your arse.

Corbyn’s Conference mantra; “Straight Talking, Honest Politics”

Corbyn wants LESS confrontational, more adult, civilized, more respectful politics.

Yet much of his speech, like the first 5-years of a PMQT chimp tea party (without the bun fight) was either denying their own record and blaming the Conservatives for it, or making false accusations against the coalition.

Yesterday was typical, throwing tainted ‘red meat’ at the faithful, making up stories about the Tory record and then say we will fight that (made up record).

Forgetting for one moment Labour’s OWN suck up record with hedge funds (see the link further below) when Corbyn was a member of that government, where does the following tax break figures come from?

Jeremy Corbyn attacks big business as he says "no" to "hedge fund tax breaks"
www.cityam.com/225418/jeremy-corbyn-attacks-big-business-he-says-no-hedge-fund-tax-breaks

Corbyn added that "hedge funds" have been given "£145m in tax breaks" in return for their "£55m investment".

“Who Runs Britain?” by Robert Peston
www.socialismtoday.org/122/peston.html

”As the Labour Party moved toward a more neo-liberal agenda in the 1990s, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown began to embrace the free market,”

”Some of the largest donations came from private equity. Sir Ronnie Cohen and Nigel Doughty, for example, have donated £2.8 million between them since 2001. Cohen co-founded Apax - a private equity firm behind the leveraged buy-outs of companies such as Waterstones and Virgin Radio. He is now chairman of Portland Capital hedge fund and an adviser to the government on ‘encouraging enterprise’ in deprived areas. Once a Liberal Party member, he moved over to Labour after meeting Blair in 1996.”

”Other contributions include £750,000 from former Goldman-Sachs partner, John Aisbitt, £500,000 from hedge fund executive, William Bollinger, and an estimated £17 million over the past decade from supermarket tycoon, David Sainsbury. Sainsbury became a lord in 1997 and was given a position in the cabinet. Paul Drayson, a healthcare entrepreneur, donated £1.1 million after being appointed to the House of Lords by Blair. Drayson had already courted controversy by donating £100,000 to the Labour Party before his company had won a £32 million government contract supplying a smallpox vaccine. In May 2005, he became a junior defence minister.”

And now you know why Labour/Brown lowered the Capital Gains Tax, the REAL millionaire’s tax, to a 10% tapered low.

What about the rest of Europe, why did they crash if it was all brown's fault for deregulating the banks (something the Tories agreed with and thought didn't go far enough!)?

Do you think we still would have had a crash under Major, where we would have joined the Euro and would have deregulated banks even more.

Isitme- please refer me to the statistic which helps me understand why the reduced quality of life I( and lots others) endure under Cameron is OK

Tapered which meant that if you'd owned the asset for longer than 10 years you paid less, there is your "private sector" incentive right there, round and round in circles you go isit.

Longtimelurker101 .... Re your;
Go back to the first post, my point was actually that Tories who claim "Labour always mess up the economy" have short memories, you haven't refuted any of the points I brought up about that.

So when was the last time a Labour government handed back a UK economy in better shape than when they came to power - as it shows there ability to get the country out of a mess passed to them?

Lets look pre Thatcher.

In 1976, the UK economy was in a dire position, and like some third world country, they had to call in the IMF.

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/themes/imf-crisis.htm
In 1976 Britain faced financial crisis. The Labour government was forced to apply to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for a loan of nearly $4 billion. IMF negotiators insisted on deep cuts in public expenditure, greatly affecting economic and social policy.

In 1978-89 the Trade Unions were taking on a Labour government, not a Tory government.

"Winter of Discontent"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent

"The Winter of Discontent refers to the winter of 1978–79 in the United Kingdom, during which there were widespread strikes by public sector trade unions demanding larger pay rises, following the ongoing pay caps of the Labour Party government led by James Callaghan against Trades Union Congress opposition to control inflation, during the coldest winter for 16 years."

"The strikes were a result of the Labour government's attempt to control inflation by a forced departure from their social contract with the unions by imposing rules on the public sector that pay rises be kept below 5%, to control inflation in itself and as an example to the private sector."

And finally the politically social fabric Thatcher inherited.

“Douglas Eden reveals the extraordinary penetration of the 1970s Labour movement by pro-Soviet trade unionists and the extent of Callaghan’s toleration of the hard Left.”
www.spectator.co.uk/features/3665728/we-came-close-to-losing-our-democracy-in-1979/

Was any of that shit stack passed back to Labour in 1997?

Was the economy/finances Labour passed to the Conservatives in 2010, the same as in 1997, and was it any better by 2015 - of course it was.

So there is 40-years, and while you may want to go back further, I'd more worried about todays Back To The Future Corbynism, whose policies look very similar to the 1970's/1980s - and led by a Labour leader who liked to holiday in East Germany.

Not so much 'reds under the bed', more jumping on and off the bed.

'P.P.S. I will now go back to my demure non self promotion self.'

I have never seen that side. That will be a first.

'Are you a politician or a SPAD? You seem to answer what you want not what is asked.'

Isit is not a politician or SPAD, because even though many of them are liars, hypocrites and expense fiddlers, none of them are stupid.

StitchesBurstinBath ... re your;
Isitme- please refer me to the statistic which helps me understand why the reduced quality of life I( and lots others) endure under Cameron is OK

Please show me how a Labour Party in 2010 that said that after the General Election they were going to increase taxes more and cut less than the other parties and not offering THEIR PLANS addressing the cuts, their tax rises, or how they'd re build the economy to pay for it all - WOULD have made you better off when more cuts would have been inevitable?

March 2010; ”Alistair Darling:we will cut deeper than Margaret Thatcher”
www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/mar/25/alistair-darling-cut-deeper-margaret-thatcher

October 2013; “Labour will be tougher than Tories on benefits, promises new welfare chief”
www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/12/labour-benefits-tories-labour-rachel-reeves-welfare

“Rachel Reeves vows to cut welfare bill and force long-term jobless to take up work offers or lose state support”

August 2013; “Labour to substantially cut benefits bill if it wins power in 2015”
www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/21/labour-to-cut-benefits-bill-2015

”Labour will cut the benefits bill "quite substantially" and more effectively than the Tories if it wins power in 2015, the shadow work and pensions secretary said on Tuesday”

”Liam Byrne, a Labour frontbencher, said the coalition's welfare reforms were failing to cut costs enough, and called for cross-party talks to "save" some of the government's key schemes.”

1976 was a direct impact of the policies of Heath, not Wilson.

The Tories were in power from the 50s onward, did they hand Labour a good economy in 64? No they handed over a mess, in 97 they handed over a large deficit, in a time of economic prosperity, as large as that Labour had in 2007. They also handed over a country which had suffered from chronic lack of investment, for 18 years.

*Longtimelurker101 ... re your; Tapered which meant that if you'd owned the asset for longer than 10 years you paid less, there is your "private sector" incentive right there, round and round in circles you go isit.

Show me to qualify for Brown's taper relief with a low Capital Gains Tax of 10% the Private Equity firms etc had to hold the asset for 10-years.

But even then, how could Brown justify any 10% CGT rate when paying pensioners feck all, raiding private pensions, sticking Home Stamp Tax up from a Flat 1% and doing nothing for the poor but TAKING AWAY the 10p start rate of income tax

And if you want the full extent of Brown's money men kiss arse, even as the crash was starting;

October 2007: ”A speculator's budget?”
www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/thereporters/robertpeston/2007/10/a_speculators_budget.html

Yet Labour/Brown/Corbyn still accuse the Tories of a 'tax cut for millionaires' after 12-years and 11 months into a 13-year administration when they RAISED the 40% income tax rate to a level when feck all extra came into the coffers - and so the Tories cut half their increase.

The Labour Party are just a bunch of useless hypocrites who refuse to see their own record while attacking Tories..

1976 was a direct impact of the policies of Heath, not Wilson.

Yet none of the Tory policies from May 2010 have anything to do with what Labour left (guffaw), priceless. But I reiterate, a government should be judged on what it comes into and what it leaves.

in 97 they handed over a large deficit, in a time of economic prosperity, as large as that Labour had in 2007.

In 1997 the UK had had around 24 conseq quarters of admittedly GDP growth (back in the days GDP wasn't unsustainably bought) from the 1991 recession, and was the fastest growing country in Europe.

Re the Conservative 1997 budget deficit they budgeted to be paid off by 2001/2 and was - according to Darling in 2010 it would take at least two parliaments (10-years) to pay off their budget deficit - just to put the size into context.

The same could be said for the Tories, and you specifically refuse to admit any failing on their part, we should genuflect to their brilliance.

The 10 percent taper was designed to encourage long term private sector investment, sadly it didn't work. But it was a private sector incentive to invest.

Sadly, though we give £98 billion to corporations in subsidies and tax breaks (per year, more than is paid out in benefits), they don't seem to want to invest...

The problem is you lot 'totes' believe your own self perpetuated anti Tory ballshit, while refusing to acknowledge your own records in power.

The Labour Conference has voted to support a continuous at-sea deterrent. Most of the unions and Labour MPs support Trident.

Jeremy Corbyn declares that he would welcome a debate on Trident.

Jeremy Corbyn has now said that he would refuse to ever use Trident as PM.

So how does that work? Can you have a debate if the person who potentially has his finger on the button says, I'm going to make my own decision regardless of what anyone else might think or what consensus there might be.

That is not encouraging debate. That is creating a situation where the many might be being disregarded because of one man's opinion. He has already decided that he will ignore any debate and any 'will of the people'.

Now, I'm generally a pacifist so I respect his morality on this. However I do find the situation this could potentially create disturbing for many, many reasons. If he does the same on other issues I would be even more concerned.

Sorry, I have acknowledged issues with the previous Labour administration. I even said that the deficit needs to be lowered, but at a lower rate and that the burden should be shared.

You fail to admit any issue with what the current or previous Conservative governments have done.

Sadly, though we give £98 billion to corporations in subsidies and tax breaks (per year, more than is paid out in benefits), they don't seem to want to invest...

Hey Sparky, lets say I take that £93 billion at face value, just where DOES the rest of the money come from to pay the UK's bills based on our expenditure below - if not the Private Sector that Labour don't understand?

The UK government is spending around £760 billion a year.
www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/

I repeat, where does THIS figure at yesterdays conference come from?

Corbyn added that "hedge funds" have been given "£145m in tax breaks" in return for their "£55m investment".

Claig - you need to find a more cutting insult, Isitme may be many things but stupid isn't one of them!

Isitme - does private enterprise ever do things which harms the economy as a whole? How should we stop them?

Have the conservatives ever made a mistake on economic policy?

And how should we influence private enterprise to invest rather than just taking the profits and legging it to the Isle of Man?

Also, most public spending benefits private industry, education, health, infrastructure, etc etc.

This is on top of the 98 billion, who should pay for these things?

Alyosha …. Re your questions;

What about the rest of Europe, why did they crash if it was all brown's fault for deregulating the banks (something the Tories agreed with and thought didn't go far enough!)?

Show me where the Tories wanted to deregulate the banks balance sheets/lending, rather than being against new Labour/EU red tape/regulation throughout the UK, stifling the economy e.g. cited after Labour lost 1 million manufacturing jobs in their first 7-years, together with for some, a strong Pound, as Brown kept putting up their taxes as well.

I have blamed Brown for the state of the UK banks/financial system not the whole crash (please do not put words in my mouth in desperation) and to understand what happened to Europe - and what Brown admitted he did not understand - look up the details of a ’financial contagion’ e.g. through the interbank market.

Do you think we still would have had a crash under Major, where we would have joined the Euro and would have deregulated banks even more.

The U.S. due to their policies and de regulation of Glass-Steagall was likely to financially have huge problems anyway, as the infected mortgages within the securitized bundles of U.S. banks Sub Prime lending - would have cause huge individual U.S. bank uncertainty anyway.

Another Tory government under Major in 1997 was unlikely to think it had to copy the U.S. repealing a 1933 U.S. Act put into a place after a financial crash we never had.

Would they have responded differently when the crash started e.g. NOT letting Northern Rock go tits up and start a run on banks and thereby encouraging the markets to attack UK bank stock prices as thought our government was banking toothless, I don’t know.

If you think that the then anti/pro EU split Tories were pro Euro in 1997, you have even MORE required reading to do.

P.S. I'll address some of your company issues on the other thread when I have time, I have no interest in providing some brains behind the next Corbyn manifesto, kinda the subject of THIS thread.

P.P.S. Thank you for your (backhanded) compliment.

image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Politics/documents/2007/08/17/ECPGcomplete.pdf

A conservative report which recommended regulating mortgage lending less heavily.

You blame Brown rightly. But the conservative would have done the same, which puts paid to your "Labour ruined the economy" guff - either govt. would have put the economy in the shitter.

"If you think that the then anti/pro EU split Tories were pro Euro in 1997, you have even MORE required reading to do."

John M was mad keen on the Euro - and who knows, maybe Labour would have voted with him to help fracture the Cons.