Corbyn Speech

[claig]

Very well delivered. No spin, no pregnant pauses, no coached phoney hand gestures. A couple of flat jokes written by teenage whizzkids from Oxbridge, but that is to be expected. Very natural, totally unaffected, a refreshing change from what we are used to. Modernisers now face real competition.

YOu feel you are on a different planet sometimes with the divide between right and left wing posters, a parallel universe.

How you can not speak about the two major issues of the economy and immigration and think that's the speech that's needed when the election was fought on the firs tof those issues and lost by Labour on that issue I don't know.

This is all really good news for the Tories. Ten more years. I'm smiling.
I would like Osborne. If not think BJ would do.

'How you can not speak about the two major issues of the economy and immigration and think that's the speech that's needed when the election was fought on the firs tof those issues and lost by Labour on that issue I don't know.'

Grazia you are right, but it all depends on what Corbyn does and if he has real bottle because he could neutralise those two issues and change the game entirely if he is bold enough to think outside the box and solve the nation's problems on housing, jobs, job security, living wage, free education etc etc Then those two issues would be history like the Blairites are history.

But Corbyn has bottled it already, however, he may recover his nerve and still trump the Tories yet.

'This is all really good news for the Tories. Ten more years. I'm smiling.

It is the Tory Conference next week. What a let down, all smug faces, patronizing spin and modernising messages, all belong to the past. It won't even be worth tuning in to to listen to the spin-laden speeches.

No energy, no excitement, no hope, no future, just lobbyists with pockets full of cash. That is the past. Corbyn has energised the nation, breathed life back into Labour and sparked a revolution. Depending on what he offers the people, it could still sweep the country.

The one thing he said that sounded really stupid was giving the self-employed maternity/paternity leave. They really have no idea, you take a few months off your own business then you don't have a business. Sounded good to the crowd though.

The Tories are the future because Britain voted them in for 5 years - thankfully. Bit hard to suggest they are just the past when they have a massive mandate and are doing such good work.
Although I do appreciate hearing left wing views on mumsnet and it's a huge relief from thread after thread about babies nappies, nail polish and the like. Thank goodness some women are interested in politics whatever their political persuasion.

How Corbyn will deal with only 9% of his MPs being for his policies is going to be interesting in 5 years time if he survives that long.

The Tories are very exciting at present - all sorts going on and at last after 5 years of Coalition the means to get it done. Osborne in China has done wonderful work. I hope he replaces Cameron just before the election.

I haven't listened to Corbyn today as I've been workiing to pay my hugely excessive taxes to fund foreign wars and all the rest....What did he say about the self employed?

Well it depends if the self employed CAN take a break, some would be able to and go back, giving them the option is much better than not.

"you feel that you are on a different planet."

Yes you do, anyone that votes Tory and is not vastly rich is a turkey voting for Christmas, just like that junior doctor in the papers yesterday that campaigned for them then realised what the cuts would do to her pay and the NHS, so left the party and is considering changing jobs.

First they came for xxx and I did not speak out...

The only time people will realise just how divisive, unfair, and who this government are rulling for (of the wealthy elite, by the wealthy elite, for the wealthy elite) is when they do something that directly effects them. Then it will be to late and your smugness will be wiped from your dumb face.

The Tories are the future because Britain voted them in for 5 years - thankfully. Bit hard to suggest they are just the past when they have a massive mandate and are doing such good work

People were unaware of David Camerons carnal ceremonial indoctrination with distinct bestial and necrophiliac flavour when they cast their ballot. And George Osbourne might have got up to that kind of thing too. He certainly had eye brow raising encounters with a dominatrix prostitute. And then used the police to bust her place. tut tut.

More food banks.
more homelessness.
nuff said.

'Bit hard to suggest they are just the past when they have a massive mandate and are doing such good work.'

They don't have a massive mandate. They have a 10 or 11 majority, less than John Major had. In the past few months our entire national politics has been turned on its head with teh unforeseen, unexpected election of a left wing rebel over the Establishment's candidates. That is hugely significant because it shows the mood of many people, a mood that none of the political pundits had tapped into. Corbyn, the 100-1 outsider thrashed the highfliers from Oxbridge with ease.

First he defeated the Establishment within his own party, next he could defeat the Establishment in the Tory Party.

'How Corbyn will deal with only 9% of his MPs being for his policies is going to be interesting in 5 years time if he survives that long.'

Yes, he has got 91% "Et tu, Brute?"s in his party. Can he make it through the Ides of March?

Massive mandate? You Tory trolls certainly don't understand politics, smallest since the 70s I think you'll find. Elected by 27% of those that voted. Their "mandate" wouldn't give a trade union the right to strike under the proposed laws, yet it gives the Tories the right to rule? One rule for one....

Surely even the most left wing do at least accept the Tories are in power?

As we know SNP and UKIP got the same number of votes,. UKIP got one seat and SNP 50. So yes we don't have a perfect system but the Tories won fair and square, thankfully. I am off to my capitalist bed now. Night all.

Their "mandate" wouldn't give a trade union the right to strike under the proposed laws, yet it gives the Tories the right to rule? One rule for one

But a union vote would only be spread out over a yes no vote. A GE there are a number of candidates so the % will be smaller. We has had about 9 to chose from here.

I am not a Tory voter, never have been, but calling people 'trolls' just because they disagree with your politics or views is unnecessary imo.

I imagine a large proportion of those MPs currently opposing Corbyn's policies will change their tune pretty sharpish if those policies turn out to be popular, Grazia.

I'm enjoying the re-emergence of ideology-led politics instead of all the shit we've listened to for years since Tony Blair. I like a line in the sand, and people should know what they believe in.

Night, Grazia. But UKIP got a lot more votes than the SNP. But that is our stitched up Establishment voting system.

The one thing he said that sounded really stupid was giving the self-employed maternity/paternity leave. They really have no idea, you take a few months off your own business then you don't have a business. Not necessarily - depends on how your business is set up. A freelancer / contractor might like time off. I know I would have liked to have more than 10 weeks off after the birth of my DD.

I was pointing out that the "massive" mandate crowed over by Tory voters on here is hardly that, and that in other areas of politics it would be no longer enough to take action.

Oh and suggestions of BJ are laughable, he's already unpopular with his fellow back benchers for his lack of seriousness, not doing his reading and preperation and overtly theatrical style in everything. He'd not get as far as a leadership ballot.

Corbyn, mocked as much as he has been, has over come it. I think the Tories have something to fear ( well I hope so).

A freelancer could take time off, you don't need the governments permission. I was thinking more of the individual plumber or electrician who can't take time off because a customer that needs him wont wait they will use someone else.

If its a case of the client paying for a freelancers leave then I think it might be the death knell for a lot of contracting jobs.

Well freelancers/contractors might be forced to go paye fairly soon - the IR35 consultation ends tomorrow. So sillybilly might get her wish and lose the tax benefits at the same time.

But anyway Corbyn's speech wasn't his speech, the bbc described it as off the cuff but it was pretty much word for word an old speech wrote for Ed Milliband. Now 'off the cuff' means without preparation so is there not something a bit strange about the bbc's description... misleading really.

If Corbyn is talking to the people, then I'm not a person.

I'm also not an 'elite'. Its bollocks.

So I guess that must mean I'm an alien then.

Err nope, I'm not one of those either. Born in this Country and British Passport holder.

So where DOES that leave me?

Answer: With no one talking for me STILL...

Nothing has changed. There is still spin here. Lots of it. Just different spin, slightly repackaged.

Its still divisive and still about othering and blaming. Its not about tackling issues without trying to score points and create a certain impression or image.

Same old shit.

If this country is a mess, then its because different groups aren't sharing responsibility. Eg Banks lent. People borrowed. Governments encouraged it.

So who is to blame? All of us. And until we can all get that through our thick heads, instead of going 'well they did this and they did that' like primary school children, then we won't actually fix the problems.

No one wants to take responsibility. That's the bottom line.

Its bollocks. Corbyn is selling a dream. Nothing more. It is not an alternate reality.

Corbyn got my vote for the simple reason that the other 3 contenders left me absolutely cold. We (I've been a Labour supporter all my life) had lost the last two elections - and here they were regurgitating the same guff!

We're told that Corbyn's election would guarantee a Tory government for the next ten years. I'm not so sure about that, but I'm pretty sure that a Labour party under a leader following the same old Tory-lite policies would have done no better.

I voted for Corbyn reasoning that, with 5 years to go before the next election, at least we'd have the left/right conversation for a couple of years - which wouldn't have happened otherwise. If he failed to convince the LP in that time, at least there would be a possibility of another leader arising by 2020.

IMO, he's the best thing that's happened to the Labour Party since John Smith - let's give the guy a chance to show us what he can do!

So the bits about values do not speak to you, the bits about a new fairer country do not speak to you?

"Selling a dream" is all a poltician can do till they are in power, then they can do something about it. Sometimes its good to dream, ask anyone who changed anything ever.

Longtimelurker101 …. Re your questions below, the short answer re “rebutted” is absolutely not, as your effort to clean up Labour’s 13-year record, is frankly ignorant, bordering on the pathetic;

”Even if you talk about the economic crash of 2008 it can't be blamed on Labour, the deregulation that caused it happened in the big bang under thatcher in the 80s and once the regulation was gone the city and its pressure groups were never going to let it back.”

Yes the Big Bang happened under Thatcher, but so what, that has nothing to do with the U.S Sub Prime Mortgages that had been around since the 1930s, or in the 1997 when Brown’s deregulation of the UK banks (to mimic the U.S. repeal of the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act, why?) took sole banking regulation from the BoE and formed a regulatory tripartite that included the new FSA.

Brown admitted that he did not understand how interconnected global banking was since the growth of global investment banking - AFTER he allowed the massive growth if UK bank balance sheets lending to anything with a pulse from 1997 – providing with annual government budget deficit spending, the financial bubble tax receipts he built the UK fat public sector/welfare state upon, that once BURST, left all the expenditure but less taxes = 2010 £153 billion annual government budget deficit/overspend.

metro.co.uk/2011/04/11/gordon-brown-i-made-big-mistake-on-banks-before-financial-crisis-650630/

FSA says Labour leadership had encouraged it to take a 'light touch' on banks and must take share of blame for financial crisis
www.theguardian.com/business/2011/dec/12/labour-regulations-city-rbs-collapse

”In fact the deficit was lower on average between 1997 and 2008 than it was in any other time during the Thatcher or Major years, it only raised to solve the massive issues that the banking crisis had caused. BTW the solution that Brown and Darling came up with was employed by almost every other capitalist nation effected, and Brown's leadership was praised.”

In 1997 with the National debt at £400 billion, Brown (to gain economic credibility) accepted Conservative budgets that would FLATTEN the budget deficit from the 1991 recession by 2001/2, which it did.

But once we HAD balanced our expenditure/tax receipts, released from his pledge, Brown went on his spending spree, borrowing over £30 bil each year into the late 2007 financial crash, and passed over in 2010 an unbalanced economy full of Nation Debt of around £1 trillion.

As for ‘the Brown/Darling banking solution the world effected’ lololololololol, can you please tell me which major economies NATIONALISED THEIR LARGE BANKS in 2008, as it certainly wasn’t the U.S. as they had a different approach and their banks paid back every cent their owed a few years back – while the RBS etc equity Labour bought, is STILL how much below what we paid for it????

”The current Chancelor had his "omnishambles" budget and has raised the debt by more than all of the labour chancellors combined.”

So Labour with a balanced budget in 2001/2, leaves the Conservative an £153 billion annual budget deficit/ overspend, a totally unbalanced economy with a huge public sector/welfare state they built to fund – with not the first clue by May 2010 how to get the tax PAYING private sector out of the deepest recession in 80-years, to rehire all the jobs they’d lost - and increase pay rates for those still in work that had FALLEN in real terms from 2008/9 when Labour also lost around 7% of GDP/output.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3236690/Number-employed-state-falls-lowest-level-Second-World-War-pay-rises-fastes-rate-decade.html

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/million-factory-jobs-lost-under-labour-6150418.html

So is it any wonder that Osborne inheriting that unbalanced Labour economy/finances with not ONE POLICY in place to fix the budget deficit other than raise every ones taxes, could not balance the deficit in one parliament, as he also had to give tax cuts to companies, workers, pensioners totally left in Labour’s recession, to get us OUT of recession.

”Please, Please don't talk about economics or history if you don't actually get it. If you buy into the arguments put by the tories now, you really don't get either.”

So please can you peddle either your ignorance or propaganda on Labour’s banking, economic, and deficit record elsewhere???

”I think, thats your argument rebutted no?”

That would be a honking fat NO, but feel free to try again, this time with the facts.

P.S. Oh and don’t try to use 'smoke and mirror' measurements versus GDP for Labour’s record, because as we can see, Labour GDP was built of UNSUSTAINABLE government/company/personal debt, a financial bubble we don’t want back, and a huge public sector/welfare state - that was always going to collapse at the first recession.

And Corbyn wants to BORROW more money to rebuild the fat public sector/welfare state ALL OVER AGAIN, as our interest rates are so low - in fact at a 300-year all time Base Rate low since the BoE was formed - so interest rates funding the current £1.6 trillion on National Debt (and whatever Corbyn piles on) can only go one way, UP.

The last estimate I saw was the interest rate/service costs of our current National Debt in 2015/16 was £40 billion.

By the next general election the interest charges will be £60 billion.

That is £60 billion coming out of our annual government spending in 2020, BEFORE Corbyn opens the borrowing taps - can we really not spend that money better - as whatever fat government Corbyn wants to invest in has to make a huge return to cover the interest payment costs alone.

THE NEW, DIFFERENT WAY OF DOING POLITICS, similar to their last 13-years, on The Road to Greece.

HirplesWithHaggis
Yup, written for Milliband four years ago.

That would be embarrassing enough but actually, parts of it were written in the 1980s and rejected by every labour leader from Kinnock onwards. So refreshingly new and different, not.

I heard nothing in his speech about how he would handle the economy - oh that's right, of course people don't want to hear about the important stuff when he has more important nitty gritty policies to deliver like “hope”, “fair play” and “inclusiveness".

Fairer country yes. But my definition and how you do that is a million miles away from what Corbyn is proposing plus I'm also pragmatic about certain realities. Its easy to spout bollocks that will leave many even worse off in pursuit of a dream.

25.2 million people were employed by small business in 2014. 5.7 million were employed by the public sector. 6.5 million people were members of trade unions in 2013 (apologies for the differences in years but you get the idea).

When Corbyn starts blabbering on the people and the credentials of being a union leader do bare it in mind. People employed by small businesses tend not to be members of unions.

He seems to be trying to suggest he is representing more people than he actually does and he has a lack of understanding of certain issues.

I don't think that makes him any better than Conservatives who would like to dismantle public services and unions.

You have to understand the needs of different groups. This is what I have a problem with. Corbyn's dream focuses on what he knows and is pretty disgusting to areas he doesn't know or doesn't care about.

Picking a vegan to be Shadow Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs DOES say a lot I'm afraid. What she has said since getting the job has been nothing short of downright offensive and completely ignorant to those working in many areas her department covers.

It is fairly obvious that there Corbyn is focusing on areas where he thinks he can win votes and are traditional Labour values and strong points in comparison to the Conservatives.

Conservatives - Rural, Farmers, Small Business, Rich, Upper and Middle Classes
Labour - Unions, Public Sector, Cities, Poor, Working Classes

This is NOT good for the country as it is a polarisation of politics, leaving many up shit creek without a paddle because they don't fit into the nice neat boxes. It neglects those who fall in between the cracks and does this 'othering' whereby those who are not in your club are the enemy or to be despised. The mere fact I was actually attacked in the way I have been for "not believing in a fairer society" is a good representation of it. It is divisive politics and personally I don't think its any better than the race shit that UKIP stirred up. The papers love it. They can cash in on a nice little class warfare just as much as they can cash in on Farage's scaremongering. And who does that ultimately benefit? Not the working class nor the middle class - but the people who advertise, the people who own newspapers, the people who make money from marketing products to particular groups. Its great market fragmentation. Oh. Would they happen to be these 'elites' we all 'hate' so much? Well I think some will do very nicely out of Corbyn being in opposition.

No we need to look at PROBLEMS not go on about who is to blame and look at how they affect a RANGE of people if you do X, Y or Z. You need to consider how you tackle the side effects of a particular policy rather than going after the great little sound bites and how it has great PR appeal to certain voters. Its shallow, popularist voter appealing shit. (Something Blair was very guilty of - and does raise questions about how far politics has really moved despite protests to the contrary and the current Labour party and its supporters hating the comparison) The reality is that governments SHOULD make difficult decisions and sell 'bad' policies as good for everyone, rather than promising the moon on a stick to their blinkered followers. And policies SHOULD be somewhat more complex than they sometimes are because affects can be very different to their intended purpose (see use of anti-terror laws for good example)

A fairer society will not come from the current Labour. A fairer society will only come from one that looks at politics from various perspectives and acknowledges its own weaknesses and failings rather than pinning it on other people.

As I say. Same old shit. Different clothing.