UKIP's colouring book comment - who votes for these idiots?

[SnowBells]

Link to BBC article here

If you don't want 16-17 year old teens to vote because they've been brainwashed by colouring books and later on even university research projects - does that mean you don't want the young to have a vote at all? So at some point, you will only grant pensioners a vote?

Because - you know - all the young ones are tainted now. They should have no say at all.

Well, let me tell you... Ms. Suzanne Evans, spokeswoman for the UKIP party. It is the future of these young people you're playing with. They have to live in this world with the mistakes made by previous generations long after you've gone. Because of this, I think there should be a system whereby the vote of the young counts more.

Currently, too many pensioners and soon-to-be pensioners have too much say due to the sheer number of people in that age group. They are the ones shaping the world of tomorrow - a world they are unlikely to live in for long. Hence, politics tends to be a lot about short-term benefits rather than taking a real long-term view.

After that comment by UKIP, I really think that whoever votes for them must be a bigger idiot than their spokespeople.

Based on conversations with my 14 year old, I don't think 16 year olds should get the vote. She thinks redistributive taxes are "really unfair" and has lots of similarly unattractive right wing views. The penny will drop some time, and she is going to be a lovely person, I'm sure, but can we just stick with 18 for now .

SnowBells , don't you undestand what UKIP are saying? An election should be based on a level playing field. Who funds the "colouring books", who funds teh charidees and do they give equal time, noney and charidee to teh UKIP argument against the EU?

"UKIP: School children 'brainwashed' with pro-EU propaganda

But at a press conference in London on Wednesday, UKIP party spokeswoman Suzanne Evans said school children had been exposed to pro-EU propaganda and should not take part.

"It's everything there from colouring-in books on the Common Agricultural Policy for primary school children right up to research projects at university level."

I don't work for UKIP but I agree with most of what they say just like 1 in 7 of the electorate. You may think they are all moronic, but they are entitled to think differently to you.

You said

"After that comment by UKIP, I really think that whoever votes for them must be a bigger idiot than their spokespeople."

I vote for them and I am not an idiot. I am giving you the other side of the argument which is why I think it is wong to give the vote to 16 year olds. I think UKIP is right that it could lead to influencing of voters by EU funding and charidee funding.

'Do you keep them in a file somewhere and copy and paste them on forums as and when required? Like "customer service" people do?'

No, I am like Farage, I don't need to rehearse and prepare like Clegg, because I believe in what I say

'You sound like the British version of a Tea Party member who worships Sarah Palin.'

Close. I like the Tea Party, but I think Sarah Palin is possibly not for real. I like Farage because I think he is for real and I like UKIP, just like 1 in 7 of the British electorate.

claig The same Farage who refuses to talk about his party's stance to gay marriage?

I prefer a forward-looking country - UKIP can't deliver that. They'd rewind the time to Victorian times of they could.

'Farage who refuses to talk about his party's stance to gay marriage?'

Farage deos talk about it. he said he supported civil partnerships but at one timeopposed gay marriage due to the possible implications of religious freedom for churches n the event of a possible EU human rights appeal etc. I don't know what his current position on it is. I think he has said that it is now a fait accompli, but I am not sure.

'I prefer a forward-looking country - UKIP can't deliver that.'

But that is a matter of opinion. UKIP is for a self-overning, free trading, open to the whole world country rather than a country where up o 70% of its laws are passed in Brussels rather than in or Parliament and which is focussed on Europe, which has a declininre of world trade, rather than the Asia-pacific region and all the rest of the world. I think that makes UKIP outward and forward looking, with power given to the people via proportioanal representation and local referenda, rather than in the hands of a tiny Oxbridge elite who have signed away many of our powers to Brussels, to such an extent that we are not even allowed to control our own borders.

'They'd rewind the time to Victorian times of they could.'

UKIP are for progress ane education and industrial development and economic growth. They will scrap tuition fees for science and medical degrees. Farage says that it is the Greens who want to turn the clock back to Victorian times with their zero growth and negative growth policies which would lead to higher fuel prices, lower industrial production and fewer jobs to support a growing population.

This is from 2006. It is a blog by one of teh main real tory bloggers, the famous Archbishop Cranmer. It's probably not politically correct, it's certainly not progressive, it is just what the tories used to be and what many real tories still are. It's not UKIP.

I have googled the EU "colouring books". There is lots of mickey taking and doubtless the progressive Tory modernisers will join in, but I found this article which talks about the EU "colouring books". It is naive to not ask where the funding comes for charidees, EU books and info, campaigns, and luvvie backed sleb campaigns. Politics is about influencing hearts and minds and those with the largest pockets have the means to do so.

UKIP is a tiny party with little funding. The entire progressive elite and Establishment are against it, only the people are for it, and that is why UKIP wants a level playing field in electoral spending, EU pamphlets and political charidee campaigns etc

"Cranmer has feared this for years. It has been hinted at, and the progress has been subtle, but now the full frontal attack has begun. The European Union has proposed that EU integration should become part of the National Curriculum, along with its unique understanding of ‘democracy’ and ‘cultural diversity’. The reality is that students in UK schools are already taught these things as a part of ‘Citizenship’, and for all its faults, it is mostly a balanced programme of rights and responsibilities (though the EU dimension is already appallingly one-sided). There is nothing to be opposed in the EU’s suggestion that students should master maths, other languages and technology, but Cranmer is baffled as to why Her Majesty’s Government is not considered competent to handle this.

Frankly, if health and education become an EU competence, there will be absolutely no need for national governments. The Conservative Party has described the idea as ‘pernicious’. It may be the beginning of a ‘euro-curriculum’ to forge what the European Commission regards as its ultimate goal - a common European identity. Controlling the education system is a classic strategy of a conqueror, mainly to ensure that its philosophies permeate future generations. History is invariably re-written, the truth is misrepresented and the nation’s history is subsumed to a larger world vision.

The Commission has already made significant inroads into the education system, under the guise of instilling a ‘European dimension’ in the schooling of all pupils. Provision is made for the creation of EU-approved cartoon strips, audiovisual presentations, pamphlets, ‘games’, magazines and booklets aimed at school children as young as five years old. Conservative Party Chairman, Francis Maude, confirmed as far back as 2000 that this was the first step ‘to creating a single EU curriculum’ (The Times, 7th August 2000, p1). One of the most insidious examples was a colouring book called Let’s Draw Europe Together, whose introduction made its purpose clear: ‘The title Let’s Draw Europe Together is intended as a call to school children as well as all of us to commit ourselves to achieving European unity.’ On the bottom of the page is a picture of an infant carrying a large EU banner and wearing a nappy emblazoned with the 12 stars of the EU flag. In further chapters, children are introduced to the many languages of the EU and are encouraged to translate a phrase into ten languages. There is, of course, nothing wrong in introducing 5 - 11 year olds to foreign languages, but the phrase they are asked to translate is the subtly indoctrinating ‘Europe, our future’, while their attention is deflected from the indoctrination by colouring cartoon characters.

This publication went on to describe what the EU does, with an agriculture section expounding the Union’s improvements and benefits, but telling nothing of the wastefulness and chaos of the CAP. Indeed, readers are completely misinformed about the effects of the CAP on food prices, and are told: ‘One of the first things the EEC did was to ensure the supply of foodstuffs to European consumers at reasonable prices.’ There were many such misleading statements and pictures in this publication, which culminated in the illustration of a young man kicking down a national frontier sign and erecting in its place a large EU flag. The spiritual battle was highlighted in the EU’s classroom publication ‘What Exactly is Europe?’, aimed at 11-14 year olds. In its table of religious affiliations, in the UK (which [as far as Cranmer is aware] still includes Northern Ireland) Protestants are amazingly numbered at nil. Yes, nil. Protestant affiliation is cleverly divided into Lutheran, Anglican and ‘Other’, in order to diminish the perception that Protestants have any sizeable presence in Europe at all. This is quite simply a continuation of the ‘divide and rule’ principle, in which no religion is shown in Europe as being anywhere near to challenging the authority and popularity of the Papacy. The table is clearly set out to give the impression that Roman Catholicism is numerically the ‘winning’ religion, and the one to which children should aspire to belong if they wish to be in the mainstream."

archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.co.uk/2006/07/eu-proposes-to-take-over-education.html

I normally find claig a bit of a one trick pony but on this front I think s:he's right. School age kids are still being pumped full of all kinds of institutional propaganda. And those who can fund it and lobby in the right places for their view to be curriculum, get heard at school by teenagers. That includes the EU. No wonder they want teenagers to vote in any referendum.

claig

You do know that the UK's No.1 country for exports is Germany, right? Followed by the U.S. and other European countries. Most of our exports still go to Europe, and not China.

So just imagine how an exit from the EU could affect our economy...

'ONS data showed goods trade deficit with Germany – the UK’s largest national trading partner – was the worst ever three-month figure at £1.7billion in September and the highest monthly deficit at £2.5billion since November.'

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2825415/UK-goods-trade-deficit-widens-September-amid-weak-EU-exports.html

Germany sells more than we sell them. Germany is a business country, it used to be the biggest exporting nation on the planet and I think it is now the second after China. Germany likes trade, it will not punish us for leaving the EU by cutting trade with us.

'ONS data showed goods trade deficit with Germany – the UK’s largest national trading partner – was the worst ever three-month figure at £1.7billion in September and the highest monthly deficit at £2.5billion since November.

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2825415/UK-goods-trade-deficit-widens-September-amid-weak-EU-exports.html

"China is now Germany's third largest trade partner, after France and the Netherlands."

www.theguardian.com/world/german-elections-blog-2013/2013/sep/12/china-which-side-is-germany-on

China and the Asia-Pacific and India etc will be the future of trade due to the huge populations and untapped trading markets. Germany wants to be there.

What we are now witnessing is the beginning of the end of the EU. The luvvies, the Oxbridge set, the College of Europe team etc won't be able to hold it together. It is beginning to crack at the seams and millions of people across Europe are beginning to want a return to national sovereignty and real democracy as they vote for Eurosceptic parties which will return power to the people and take it back from the luvvies.

We are witnessing a rise in Eurosceptism, a demand for more freedom and a challenge to the liberal luvvie elite's political correctness. Then we have the US trying to drive a wedge between Europe (and in particular the German econonomic powerhouse) and Russia, a huge potential German market. The goings on in Ukraine are a test for Germany. Will it split with Russia and Eastern markets for a third time (after the first two world wars that it fought against Russia), will it join in the US TTIP or will it try to build its trading partnerships with Russia and China and the East. All of these events and forces will lead to the end of the European Union. The elite, the luvvies and the lackeys won't be able to stop the people's revolution and demand for freedom, sovereignty and an end to liberal political correctness.

Hungary has already challenged the EU consensus. Greece will probably have to leave the EU. More countries will challenge the consensus and eventually the German people themselves will challenge their own political elite and demand change.

"The Axis of Illiberalism

Europeans are beginning to realize that Margaret Thatcher was wrong and there are alternatives — to liberalism and European integration. The most notorious example of this new illiberalism is Hungary.

On July 26, 2014, in a speech to his party faithful, Prime Minister Viktor Orban confided that he intended a thorough reorganization of the country. The reform model Orban had in mind, however, had nothing to do with the United States, Britain, or France. Rather, he aspired to create what he bluntly called an “illiberal state” in the very heart of Europe, one strong on Christian values and light on the libertine ways of the West. More precisely, what he wanted was to turn Hungary into a mini-Russia or mini-China.

“Societies founded upon the principle of the liberal way,” Orban intoned,“will not be able to sustain their world-competitiveness in the following years, and more likely they will suffer a setback, unless they will be able to substantially reform themselves.” He was also eager to reorient to the east, relying ever less on Brussels and ever more on potentially lucrative markets in and investments from Russia, China, and the Middle East.

That July speech represented a truly Oedipal moment, for Orban was eager to drive a stake right through the heart of the ideology that had fathered him."

...

The Hungarian prime minister, after all, has many European allies in his Euroskeptical project. Far right parties are climbing in the polls across the continent. With 25% of the votes, Marine Le Pen’s National Front, for instance, topped the French elections for the European parliament last May. In local elections in 2014, it also seized 12 mayoralties, and polls show that Le Pen would win the 2017 presidential race if it were held today. In the wake of the Charlie Hebdo shootings, the National Front has been pushing a range of policies from reinstating the death penalty to closing borders that would deliberately challenge the whole European project.

...

Now, however, he was on the move again and his new role model wasn’t Merkel, but Russian President Vladimir Putin and his iron-fisted style of politics. Given the disappointing performance of liberal economic reforms and the stinginess of the EU, it was hardly surprising that Orban had decided to hedge his bets by looking east.

...

www.salon.com/2015/01/30/the_fall_of_europe_why_the_european_union_is_teetering_on_the_brink_partner/

The College of Europe team are on the wrong side of history. The European Empire will split, the luvvies will fall from their guiding, commanding heights. The people are demanding local democracy, freedom and national sovereignty. The College of Europe game is up.

claig I get my data from a very expensive finance/economics software (I do economics for a living and have friends in the Treasury) No need to bore me with that.

Well, giving 16 year olds the vote (after implementing a very political new Curriculum in schools) almost worked for Alex Salmond, didn't it?

52% of those in the age 16-24 bracket voted Yes.

One thing I admit I don't like about the EU with is that it expanded to countries with economies that are for lack of a better word questionable.

But a united front between several smaller countries (which European countries are) is needed in a future that will be dominated by vast countries.

'But a united front between several smaller countries (which European countries are) is needed in a future that will be dominated by vast countries.'

Yes, this is the problem. How to unite to maintain independence against stronger powers? But a liberal elite luvvie rule has failed. The people are rebelling. They want freedom, control of borders, national sovereignty, an end to political correctcness and rule by luvvies. No more banning of our non-mercury safe lightbulbs, no more banning of our vacuum cleaners, no more climate change claptrap.

UKIP have dared to challenge the luvvies. They have dared to say they will scrap the Climate Change Act. The luvvies can hug as many hoodies and huskies as they like, but the European people have had enough. Revolts against the elites and the College of Europe team are springing up all over Europe. Hungary has dared to defy them. If France does, then the luvvies' dream will be over.

Peace, trade, independence is what the people want and the luvvies will not be able to stop it. There will be business and trade with China and Russia and India and the economy will boom. No more bank ripoffs, no more expenses ripooffs for luvvies, the climate has changed. No more zero growth and negative growth green policies of the elites and luvvies, but production, prosperity, business and trade with the whole world. Development, invention, cooperation and no more funded Jihadi wars.

The future is bright, the future lies with the people and not the luvvies.

Claig, what is a "luvvie"? I thought that it's an affectionate term for an actor, particularly a genteel English one like Ken Branagh or similar. Is he actually running the EU on the side?

Yes, that is the original meaning of the term. But it has now expanded to mean an out-of-touch, incompetent, liberal, hug-a-hoodie privileged Oxbridge elite, metropolitan elite type of mentality that lacks common sense and is totally out of touch with the people. The luvvies are being challenged by the people and their party, UKIP. This is only the beginning, it is happening all over Europe. The stitch-ups are over, privilege is over, the people want change and common sense is making a return. That is why the luvvies are reeling. They have no answer to common sense. They shout "racist" but the people aren't buying it. Their whole game is up.

But Nigel Farage is the son of a stockbroker who went to a private school. He then worked as a commodities trader in London for many years. His four children all went/go to private school. How is he not as privileged, out of touch etc as any other politician? The only difference I can see is that he didn't go to university, but it doesn't seem to have harmed his privileged lifestyle much!

There is an epic battle going on. The people against the elites, the people against the luvvies and Farage is leading the people. Our entire future depends on the outcome. The luvvies are praying that Farage will lose in South Thanet, because if he does ten the people's rebellion will be over and the elites and luvvies will breathe a sigh of relief and carry on as per usual.

Lots of UKIP's other spokespeople are not very good, all too politically correct, all lacking the courage to take the luvvies on. The Deputy, Paul Nuttall, is good. But it is Farage who has driven fear into the hearts of the luvvies because he has no fear and is not politically correct. They have no answer to Farage and that is why they are praying that he will lose in South Thanet. With 00 Farages, UKIP would be unstoppable, but a Farage only comes along once in a while. If the luvvies beat Farage, they will beat the people.

It's not over yet. There are people all over the country cheering Farage on, and the Bullingdon Club, Oxbridge, the EU and the College of Europe are cheering the luvvies on.

So Farage isn't a luvvie then? Is that what you're saying? Or, he is, but the rest of his party are not? Your post, whilst impressively stirring and enthusiastic, was not very clear.

Suanne Moore in the Guardian is no fan of UKIP, but she gives good reports of what is happening with the people.

"We are in Broadstairs, in South Thanet, where Farage is standing and I have met a good few “Alisons” – decent people who are veering towards Ukip. I wish I could say they were all bonkers and racist, but they aren’t. I will say the party they are voting for is."

It’s all a lot more complicated than that. I come from Suffolk, so I feel in my bones how far away psychologically these places are from the governing state of mind that is London. Their feeling of abandonment is not conjured out of thin air, and it is no good to just say their emotions are imaginary."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/01/nigel-farage-needs-thanet-much-more-than-thanet-needs-nigel-farage

It doesn't matter how rich you are, where you went to school or how privileged you are, all that matters is whose side are you on - the people's or the elite's and the luvvies'.

Farage is with the people which is why UKIP is now the most working class party and Labour is the liberal, metropolitan elite, Oxbridge party.

'So Farage isn't a luvvie then? Is that what you're saying?'

Absolutely not because a luvvie by definition is politically correct and Farage is the antithesis of political corrdctness which is why he has the highest approval ratig of any British politician with the people.

Farage is the scoure of the luvvies and that is why they fear him.

In tonight's debate ,they will all unite against him, but he has no fear, he won't be silenced by the luvvies, because he knows that the people are cheering him on and the Bullingdon Club are cheering the luvvies and the Oxbridge PPEs on.

I'm not sure I'm convinced that someone from Farage's background is actually for the people. He has spent all his life as a privileged member of the elite. What did he ever do for the people when he was a Tory and a London broker? His lifestyle now is one of the political elite, he's hardly down with the people!

I just don't see the appeal of the same kind of posh, old, private school boorish bloke. He's not exactly a radical departure from our typical politicians.