Are Scots truly that Left Wing?

[ragged]

The SNP seems to have a very left-of-centre political agenda and set of policies. Separate from their aim of independence.

If every party campaigning in Scotland was equally pro-independence, would as many Scots still vote SNP because they still liked their left wing policies best?

I've sometimes wondered if SNP would plummet in popularity post independence, because maybe most Scots don't truly support their other priorities & policies (or do they?)

itsallgoingtobefine

The SNP will do/say whatever wins the most votes. I doubt UDI would be a vote winner though.

Doesn't every political party "do/say whatever wins the most votes"?

UDI was categorically ruled out by AS at the conference at the weekend.

Doesn't every political party "do/say whatever wins the most votes"

They do, I was pointing out that the SNP do what their 100,000+ members/45% voters want.. They are not some tiny radical fringe party making up policies with no support.

I remember Glasgow voted heavily for leaving the UK Which suggests

scotland are divided like Enland.

AFAIK Scotland is divided about independence, but is far more united about home rule/ devomax etc.

Behooven, there would be bugger-all point offering Sturgeon a coalition, since she's not even a candidate in this election and won't be sitting in WM. No, Labour are not currently offering a coalition to the SNP, and the SNP are not offering a coalition to anyone. I don't actually think entering a coalition gvt would be a good idea for the SNP, better to offer support as and when.

scots Oil was not a bonus, the SNP planned to run a budget deficit after oil was included. The statement in your BBC link said that Scotland without oil had the same economic output as England, may be true, but SNP planned spending was higher than England, so oil was/is required to fund it. The truth is the SNP could not deliver thier independence promises with oil prices at the current level.

the SNP planned to run a budget deficit you mean like every other economy in the western world?*

hirples you know what I meant . The irn Bru lady will make the decisions.
Actually, I think the SNP shouldn't have been so quick to rule out any support for the Torys, as I think that if they are in the position a)to be asked and b) to make some kind of positive difference then they should do it.

It smacks of arrogance to rule out working with them under any circumstances when they might be able to influence something for the better.

Did they rule out any support for the Tories, though? They said they wouldn't prop them up in gvt, not that if they actually proposed something that the SNP agreed with, they'd vote against it.

What could they possibly propose that the snp would agree with, though?

Snp members (esp the new ones) are very anti-Tory.

The SNP have stated that if the conservatives try to run a minority govt, they will seek to vote down the first vote and have a vote of no confidence. Under the old rules, this would mean another election. Under the fixed term rules, it would mean that there are 2 weeks for another party to form a govt, which would be a Labour led very minority govt, supported by the SNP (and Libs if Clegg loses his seat). The SNP would then demand huge spending increases for Scotland, an end to austerity and HS2 to start in Scotland. here and here

Starting, or finishing (whatever way you look at it) hs2 in Glasgow or Edinburgh (do remember we have actual places in Scotland) would benefit more of England (everything north of Leeds) than it will Scotland.

More money? That's a bit simplistic, where does it say that?

End austerity? That's a bad thing?

Prior to the indyref, the Tories offer of further devo was actually more generous than Labours. They'll have to address the issue.

Exactly, caroldecker - well said!

"Oil was not a bonus, the SNP planned to run a budget deficit after oil was included. The statement in your BBC link said that Scotland without oil had the same economic output as England, may be true, but SNP planned spending was higher than England, so oil was/is required to fund it. The truth is the SNP could not deliver thier independence promises with oil prices at the current level."

scots we have to stop running a budget deficit -we cannot borrow for ever, although where the break point is is hazy.
We cannot raise taxes because the very rich are very mobile, so efficiency savings are the only way.

carol - the SNP plans re the 'vote of no confidence / another election' are properly scarey. Frothing loons!

I think Eck was happy to spend his way into the history books and to hell with future generations who would have paid dearly for his vainglory.

I hope that they don't achieve the destabilisation in Westminster they are so clearly hellbent on or the whole of the UK will suffer, not just Scotland.

Be interesting to see Nicola speak just before DC on tonights debate.

Now I'm no fan of Scottish independence. Many of the key arguments put by the Yessers were so optimistic as to be lies, and the accusations of bias and scaremongering were nauseating.

But..

If the SNP want to use their numbers at Westminster to push the govenment in a more left-wing direction, that is their right as a bloc of Westminster MPs. Similarly, if they want to use their numbers to kick Cameron out of No 10, that is also their right. It is how the Westminster system works. Personally I very much welcome any SNP engagement with UK-wide politics. Nicola Sturgeon has very clearly stated that she, as the leader of the SNP, is on the side of those who want reform at Westminster. Good for her. Over the last generation, ethnic politics has taken too much of a grip, and has allowed an uncritical rightward drift. It is time we all kept our eyes back on the ball.

I don't think Scots are more left-wing. Certainly not in my experience. On a many social issues, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Scotland was a bit more conservative. It is probably more true to say that the South East is more economically right wing than the rest of the UK as a whole.

As for HS2, I don't see why it shouldn't start in Scotland. Britain's most northerly major cities are Glasgow and Edinburgh.

As for spending increases for Scotland - I don't see the problem with that either, as long as the additional tax required is raised in Scotland. I think that is what the SNP is probably advocating. Whether or not it will work is besides the point - which is that the SNP are not advocating some sort of zero sum game which means Scotland gains at the expense of the rest of the UK.

I'd "like" that if I could, Toadinthehole. But I'd include Aberdeen as an important city too, given the oil industry.

Toad :

I agree with you about the 'drift to the right' over the last generation and that it needs addressing. The traditional Labour Party died with John Smith, sadly.

I also agree that:
"If the SNP want to use their numbers at Westminster to push the govenment in a more left-wing direction, that is their right as a bloc of Westminster MPs. Similarly, if they want to use their numbers to kick Cameron out of No 10, that is also their right. It is how the Westminster system works."
I concede that my 'frothing loons' comment, was, in itself, frothing!

I am just concerned at the motives of the SNP. I don't believe it is an altruistic attempt to move politics back from the right to give better left wing choices.
I think it is a further attempt to break up the UK. The SNP lost in Scotland at the IndyRef (despite some very shady tactics and some very vague economic proposals) yet they have not given up on Independence.
They will attempt to get it via the backdoor and to hell with the destabilising effect on the UK.

I think (certainly outwith the major cities) Scots are socially more traditional (or conservative with a small c) than most of the UK. However I do believe that the concept of 'a man's a man for a' that' holds true too. Despite the feudal landowning system that is only just being dismantled, I think most Scots now and historically have been less willing to doff their caps and more interested in the fair distribution of wealth throughout society.

There will be no independence through the backdoor. There is no back door.

I heard that from Nicola Sturgeon in the flesh. That message from the SNP is explicitly clear. Be in no doubt.

Having more SNP MP's means just that. Scotland already have seats, who we put in them is up to us.

The referendum was lost by the Yes campaign. We (the Yes supporters) have moved on, it would be great if everyone else did too.

The SNP have a long term vested interest in destabilising the Union.

It's what it says on their tin.

ScotsWhaHae :

"The referendum was lost by the Yes campaign. We (the Yes supporters) have moved on, it would be great if everyone else did too."

Would you like to come and tell that to the folks in my village who still have their 'Yes' signs up, including a 10ft high one? Or the ones still stopping traffic and campaigning in a village along the valley?

As for:

'I heard that from in the flesh. Be in no doubt'.

You still believe, literally, what politicians say (and that they will keep to it)

????????????????

Not being rude but - where is a ROFL emoticon when we need one?

We wont need another referendum in scotland

Once we've made our influence felt in Westminster , rUK will be desperate to kick us out . They will be begging us to leave

" better together " . Yeah right. As long as we stay in our box

Why are they stooping traffic? Campaigning for what?

I still have my poster up and my cars are adorned with their yes stickers. I've also moved on, as most active yes supporters have, to getting on with life and politics.

There is no possibility of independence through the back door. What do you think 'independence through the back door' actually means? It's not a thing.

I mentioned Nicola clarifying that because people seemed to think 'independence through the back door' was an alternative. She, and the SNP are crystal clear. The only way Scotland can declare independence is by winning a referendum.

What more do you want?

ROFL all you want

Yes, politicians talk shite but when someone categorically states (this was in her tour of Scotland after becoming first minister) that something that doesn't exist, isn't actually possible, it's hard to disbelieve!

My Yes sticker is still on my car, I have a right to still have it on. Still see other cars around with Yes stickers on their vehicles too.