Are Scots truly that Left Wing?

[ragged]

The SNP seems to have a very left-of-centre political agenda and set of policies. Separate from their aim of independence.

If every party campaigning in Scotland was equally pro-independence, would as many Scots still vote SNP because they still liked their left wing policies best?

I've sometimes wondered if SNP would plummet in popularity post independence, because maybe most Scots don't truly support their other priorities & policies (or do they?)

I'm a scot living in Scotland and wouldn't vote for SNP if they were the last party standing - none of my family have ever voted for them, some of them vote labour and the rest vote Tory however as with a majority of people in the country they are very disillusioned with all the parties for the time being. SNP are a divisive and controlling party and I disagree with a lot of their policies. I don't trust sturgeon one bit and wouldn't trust any of them to run a bath never mind a country - between salmond and sturgeon they wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the arse.

Yes, some of us are leftie treehuggers, some of us are centrist, some are even Tory! Wings did some interesting polling about social attitudes and if/how they differ north and south of the border before the indyref, with at least one very disappointing (to me) result - it was re capital punishment. :(

Sorry blowinahoolie but I don't see Nicola as one of us at all - she's no different to any other politician.

The difference is that Nicola Sturgeon has stood on doorsteps and campaigned practically her entire adult life. She has had to justify herself and SNP policy over and over again to everyone, face to face. She doesn't look like she'll vomit or faint if a 'little person' starts asking difficult questions during a press call - unlike Cameron and Miliband.

She's tough but she knows how to talk to people like you and me and be genuine. And suddenly she's on this huge stage and she's handling it better than Cameron or Miliband.

I really like Ruth Davidson as well.

Ubik I do think both sturgeon and Salmond are very good public speakers but I think that just makes them better liars. They are also good at playing the under dog - they like to be the ones who criticise all the time and anyone who disagrees with them gets short shrift and ridiculed.

I also don't believe in holyrood - it's an expensive waste of money. It's about making a small group of scottish politicians feel more important than they actually are - get rid of it and all the costs that go with it - it's full of hangers-on.

Hirples you obviously have a short memory when it comes to large projects coming in on budget and being delivered early remember what happened to the costs for holyrood and the edinburgh trams? Absolute shambles doesn't begin to describe these things.

Topaz Ifthat was aimed at me, I have no problem with a devolved Scottish govt and agree the Scots pay taxes.
My point was that the SNP, because they are not campaigning to be a majority party in Westminster, do not have develop or explain how they would raise money, only how it is spent. This gives them an advantage over a national party.

I think the OP suggests the snp win votes because of their nationalism and despite their other policies.
I think it's absolutely the opposite. I think they win votes on their general philosophy (left-ness if you must) and despite their nationalism.

I support their stance on most social issues. But I think they're awful on the environment. I am not an independence nationalist. I think scottish labour are a complete disaster and that disappoints me as it leaves fewer options.

Peggy, the SNP weren't in majority control for either of the projects you mention; I can see why you might mention the trams, but you can hardly hold them responsible for the whole flaming Parliament building! Both of these project happened quite some time ago (even the trams, or some of them, are running now), don't you think people can learn from experience?The Forth crossing is coming in early and under budget, and the spare cash invested elsewhere in Scotland, unlike the millions the Labour party sent back to Westminster when they had an underspend.

I think the SNP were prepared to scrap the entire tram project

They were, Ubik, but in order to get their budget passed they had to give in to Tory demands re the trams. SNP would have preferred to put the money towards dualling the A9, saving lives and injuries every year, but hey ho. They had no outright majority - as intended by the architects of devolution - and so had to engage in consensus politics.

Something Westminster might be about to find out about!

why did they stop short of having a public enquiry about the trams? why hide the findings?

look at the V&A project in Dundee - the project will cost double what was originally put aside for it then when it came out the project wouldn't come in at the original cost they denied they knew anything about it. However it turned out SNP knew from the start but they didn't think it was in the public interest to let everyone else know and carried on regardless. its not even a V&A museum - they are only renting the name for 10 yrs...

SNP are also allowing outside companies to come in and build it so there will be no local people get jobs out of it. For the rest of the project in Dundee they are using a main contractor who has black listed 100s of builders because they dared complained about their working conditions.

"Sorry blowinahoolie but I don't see Nicola as one of us at all - she's no different to any other politician."

^this

Why does no-one get upset about Nicola Sturgeon being a career politician? Her whole life has been about the SNP. Even all her boyfriends (and now husband) have been part of the SNP machine. it's a criticism constantly laid at the door of many Westminster MPs these days, but not Saint Nicola.

And whoever says she is nothing to do with the general election is talking nonsense. Of course she has something to do with the GE, as leader of a party that could wield a lot of power in the case of a hung/minority parliament.

The pro SNP posts on here just confirm for me that the followers of that party are like members of a cult - the leaders can do no wrong, regardless what they say and do. Watching clips of the party conference was excrutiating.

I realise Scottish Labour are a bit of a mess, and that people seem unable to accept that the liberals went into coalition with the Tories and won't forgive them for that (despite the irony that Liberal supporters should be, by definition, supporters of coalitions and consensus politics!) but the rise in popularity of the SNP is frightening. It's not that different to the rise in popularity of UKIP in my view. The support comes from a combination of single issue politics (independence) and protest votes (We hate Westminster and they hate us). Not that different from UKIP.

I don't think Scotland is more left wing than UK. I think it's less well off, more working class, and more conservative with a small c. Plus has a massive chip on its shoulder about the have and have-nots.

Can I just add "everything that peggyundercrackers said"
Nicola Sturgeon scares the life out of me, I have relatives who are staunch SNP, one is actually standing for election,( and I'll be gobsmacked if this person doesn't get in) amd the "inclusiveness" of the SNP is no more than box ticking for every minority group out there.
The local authority in my city is SNP amd the utter cock up which is being made of the city, particularly education, is beyond belief.
As Peggy has referred to the V&A in Dundee, so shall I....funny how the "new revised" costings were made public about 5 minutes after the referendum isn't it....as for jobs coming to the city as a result of it, the very vast majority will be minimum wage service jobs, probably on zero hour contracts. Yay SNP.

I know a local person who has got a very nice job out of the V&A project so don't think these labour plant posters have much of a clue what they are talking about.

There is an element of small c conservatism in Scottish culture eg law & order but we are more left wing when it comes to things like community/society/looking out for each other. I sometimes wonder if this is to do with Scots living in flats/tenements whereas the English are more likely to live in houses.

I'm not staunch SNP or any other political party. Having lived here for nearly forty years I consider myself a naturalised Scot, but I was born in England (as were my parents and grandparents) and lived in two other countries before arriving here. I’m not sure what “truly left” means, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if many Scots voted SNP because of their left wing policies even if every other party was equally pro independence. YouGov recent profiling shows the Scots are left to the rest of the UK on almost every issue;

yougov.co.uk/news/2015/03/22/scotland-are-left-rest-uk-almost-every-issue/

The SNP and UKIP are like chalk and cheese on every issue.

From an impartial prospective the rise of the SNP was predicable. A Scottish film maker made a short film which was shown on TV around the same time as devolution and predicted the election of a right wing UK government would lead to the rise of calls for Scottish independence. Scottish Labour is collapsing because of its decision to work together with the Tories in the Better Together campaign and its failure to prevent the SNP from establishing itself as the Westminster reforming party.

The UK main parties act as though we still have majority governments when we don't which has brought about instability, partisanship, constant electioneering and bickering. The alternative that works in some other countries and requires more skill is minority government which adopts a consensual approach, negotiates and makes concessions so they are more likely to remain in office and make headway with policy agenda.

Slightly off point, but there is a public enquiry being conducted looking into the issue of the trams. And at the end of last year Nicola Sturgeon granted it the power to compel witnesses to attend.

No , Scots aren't " truly that left wing " . It's all relative - if you are looking from the far right , it might seem that way .

I love the sweeping racist generalisations on this thread - " all Scots are poor and have a chip on their shoulder " . Yes that's right , there are no landowners , aristocracy or rich people here, we all live in tenements like in Trainspotting and vote SNP because we don't know any better .

Yes , we are all just making a " gesture about nationalism " , we are too uneducated to have opinions about policy issues . We don't care about the economy , defence, education or the NHS.

Just as well we can go to university for free then, isn't it ?

And isn't it shocking the way they are letting women into politics these days - Nicola Sturgeon should really know her place . How dare the scots seek to have any influence on UK policy - after all, the english have never sought to influence anything in scotland , have they ?

jackieharris, using the phrase labour plant illustrates my point - it is a paranoid comment, a 'them and us' stance. Nobody is a labour plant, people are just expressing their opinions.

And StaceyandTracey, likewise, your response (which I assume is mostly directed at me) is typically sweeping, sarcastic and, quite frankly, defensive (chippy).

Rightly or wrongly,I have come to associate this type of reaction with the SNP and it has completely put me off them, despite the fact I agree with some of their policies. The bullying culture and strident rhetoric makes the party seem very untrustworthy to me. (Plus I am not pro-independence, which has to be a huge factor in whether or not to vote for them, obviously. Although some people seem to think it isn't, which I can't understand).

Also, not supporting SNP doesn't automatically mean anyone supports the Tories or Labour or Liberal. I don't think there is ever a time when I have said that one party is wholeheartedly 'for me'. It is always a bit of a compromise, and I wish more people were willing to try the consensus politics that other countries espouse, also based on compromise.

STIDW, yes, the SNP and UKIP are streets apart in terms of policies. What I meant was the reasons for their rise in popularity are similar, albeit coming from different political places. It comes from dissatisfaction, which I guess is similar to what you are saying about it being a reaction to a right wing government.

How clever of you to spot I was being sarcastic , well done . And how interesting that you think that my comments are directed at you.

I note that when people disagree with you, you call them names ( chippy , defensive ) . So much easier than actually disagreeing with their points

What a shame that so many comments on this and other threads are about the politicians private lives or appearance , rather than their track records or policies .

Yes You might disagree with Jim Murphy's style , but don't slag off his wife or kids. I understand that some people may not like / approve of the fact that Nicola is childless, but don't attack her on that ground - she doesn't use it as a campaign point . It's a bit daily Fail

Stacey, I don't think anyone has slagged off Jim Murphy's wife and kids, or mentioned Nicola's childlessness on this thread. Come to think about it, nothing much has been said about anyone's private lives or appearance. We've mostly been discussing policies, taxation, whether the Scots are left leaning or not, and a bit about the referendum. Plus whether or not we like the SNP.

You seem to be confused.

Back to the topic, it is interesting that those who say they will vote for the SNP based on the policies are also Yes supporters and vice versa. It is true that however good their policies are, I couldn't vote for them because I don't want independence. The independence issue is too big to ignore.

Do people who don't want independence really plan to vote for the SNP (because of their other policies) without worrying about the consequences of another potential referendum on independence?

Jackie im not sure why you think people are labour plants? that's certainly not me I can assure you.

wellthatsit I would agree with you - I couldn't vote for them no matter how good their policies are because I don't want independence. as it happens I don't agree with the majority of their policies so I wouldn't vote for them anyway.

Stacey I don't see anyone attacking any of the politicians personally.

Do people who don't want independence really plan to vote for the SNP (because of their other policies) without worrying about the consequences of another potential referendum on independence?

I believe the thinking is that:

• SNP will never win enough seats at WM to somehow force independence through - it is off the agenda for the time being at WM.

• Scotland tends to be mostly ignored by WM, which is very SE centric. It also dies not represent Scots. We have 1 conservative MP, yet are ruled by Conservative government.

All the big parties are based in London, and to stay in power they have to please the maximum number of people, naturally due to population densities they concentrate on policies benefiting SE England.

SNP/Scottish Greens/ SSP are Scottish parties based in Scotland so may be seen to be more likely to work for Scots. Of these three, only the SNP is really likely to be able to win a significant number if seats.

It is also relevant that although the Scots did not vote for independence, it is likely that they would have voted for Home Rule (everything bar defence and foreign policy devolved). There were promises made before the referendum of all the new powers that would be devolved. These promises are not being kept, thus many Scots see sending a large SNP contingent to WM as a way of "holding their feet to the fire".

Thus many people who do not support independence, or who do not support the SNP will be voting tactically for what they perceive to be strong representation for Scotland at WM.

I strongly suspect that in the Scottish elections, the SNPs will have rather less of the vote, as we have PR in Scotland there is less need for tactical voting.

No I'm not confused , it's you who cannot read . I wrote " this and other threads "

Anyway back to the topic.

well the Scot dont pay prescription charges and dont get kicked out of their houses when elderly. (40,000 are said to in England)

That would seem at least to be lib/left wing compared to Camerooney and his chums.

This election may well be nastier than most because there are so many parties with real influence on the result (no Lord Sutch though)

It's easy to be the popular boy when you can take credit for all the good things you do and blame Westminster for everything you dislike.

I wonder how sentiment may have been different if Scotland had voted for independence based on the fairy tales of Scottish oil revenues which have since collapsed. With no Westminster to blame, I wonder how popular they would be then?