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Would a SNP/Labour coalition be such a bad thing in May?

39 replies

MaggieGreene · 07/03/2015 09:02

After reading Lord Baker's comments about a Labour/Tory coalition would a SNP/Labour coalition be a bad thing?

Not surprisingly him being a Tory he seems to think so. But I'll be honest as someone from England I don't really know a whole lot about the SNP other than they supposed to further left than Labour?

I've always voted Labour and still will again in this election even though I am completely disheartned with them. I feel like we need something new in Westminster but don't know where it should come from. Definately not UKIP and another Tory government would be bloody devastating for the working classes and probably loads of middle class people too. Lib Dems are a joke now, so who does that leave us with?

Would it be the wrong thing for the UK to have the SNP in Westminister? As a leftie I can't see how it could be a bad thing? But I'm not very knowledgeable about politics really.

Could someone explain it, please?

OP posts:
SukieTuesday · 07/03/2015 09:09

The SNP care about Scotland and Scottish independence. Full stop. They would support bad policy that only applied to England and block good policies to blackmail a coalition partner into further devolution for Scotland.

claig · 07/03/2015 09:22

'Not surprisingly him being a Tory he seems to think so.'

The reason Baker is worried is because he fears it will lead to the breakup of the United Kingdom. Baker is not worried about socialism and Labour, he is worried about the survival of the UK.

The Establishment will feel the same and that is why the thought of a Labour/Tory coalition type deal, while seemingly unlikly now, may end up as reality in the future. Labour will do as they are told, they are PPEs.

The real gainer out of all of this will be UKIP. UKIP will be the only real opposition to a Labour/Conservative/PPE coalition and UKIP will be against the SNP. UKIP will be the only party that challenges dying Labour in the North and it will eventually even challenge the SNP in Scotland, something the dying Conservatives could never do.

Whatever happens, we are in for huge change, because the liberal Establishment have messed up and lost the confidence of the people. Now all we see are the tremors, but the earthquake is still to come.

I don't think the United Kingdom will break up and I think the SNP will begin to decline as UKIP rises.

claig · 07/03/2015 10:09

In fact, it may be the case that the Establishment is beginning to prepare us for a grand labour/Tory coalition.

Vince Cable mentioned a similar thing last month, as did the progressive friend of Cameron and one of his former speech writers, Ian Birrell, who writes for the Guardian and the Daily Mail among other things.

'A “grand coalition” of the Labour and Conservative parties could be formed after the general election in May if neither party is able to secure a majority, Business Secretary Vince Cable has claimed.'

"Cable isn’t alone in his speculation. A former speechwriter to the prime minister has argued that the two parties have more in common with each other than they do with “insurgent” parties such as UKIP.

“A government of national unity between Labour and the Conservatives may sound far-fetched, especially amid the froth and fury of a nascent election campaign,” Ian Birrell wrote in the Guardian last week.

“Yet, while there are serious disagreements, the two parties have more in common with each other than with the insurgents on many key issues – especially if David Cameron survived and Miliband was replaced by someone such as [Shadow Business Secretary] Chuka Umunna,” he said.

Birrell suggested the two parties may actually complement each other."

It is possibly a solution that the progressives and luvvies may need to adopt since they have lost the confidence of teh people and are facing the rise of the SNP which may split the UK and also the rise of the people's insurgency, UKIP, which may end the progressive plans and luvvie policies in the UK.

"Writing in the Spectator in October, journalist Mary Dejevsky said: “A Conservative-Labour coalition might seem to go completely against the grain of Britain’s adversarial politics. But it has been observed time and again in recent months that Cameron, Miliband (and Clegg) have a significant amount of political ground in common.”

“Center-left and center-right are not so very far apart,” she added."

The people have known that for years which is why they say "they are all the same". They are all progressives, all luvvies, all Oxbridge, all PPEs. That is why the people have turned to UKIP.

"Paul Waugh, editor of Politics Home, believes it is possible. He says there is “a small band of people in both main parties” who are considering it as an option. What unites them, he says, “is an equal loathing of the Lib Dems, but also the SNP, Ukip and the Greens”.

Waugh points to two recent mentions in parliament of the possibility of a grand coalition.

In a Lords debate on the NHS, the Tory life peer Lord Cormack said: "Let us remind ourselves that the health service is, in effect, via Beveridge, the product of a grand coalition. Whether we will ever have a grand coalition like that again, I do not know… However, it may be that the strange results in June [he meant May] could make that an infinitely preferable solution to the SNP holding the balance of power..."

It is a short term solution. It will hold off the SNP, but it can never hold off UKIP. The people's insurgnecy will only grow stronger as the grand coalition will make evident the charade and that "they are all the same". UKIP will grow ever stronger and it will spell the end of luvviedom and the progressive pipedream. The UK will be saved but the luvvies will lose and the people's insurgency will win.

BakewellSlice · 07/03/2015 10:23

I see it as Sukie does.

The SNP have no desire to make Westminster work for the UK as a whole. They may well provoke such a backlash among the English electorate so that the Union would be effectively over.

That would obviously suit them, it's their reason to exist - to make Scotland an independent country.

BakewellSlice · 07/03/2015 10:24

UKIP are not a force at all in Scotland.

claig · 07/03/2015 10:32

They are not a force yet, but give it time.
UKIP surprised the SNP by winning one of the six MEP seats that the SNP thought was theirs.

The reason UKIP will grow is because they will really oppose the SNP because UKIP are not progressive, unlike Labour who are and therefore are ineffectual against the progressive SNP.

The progressive Labour can't challenge progressive "named person" type policies but UKIP can and will and over time I think that will make the difference.

BakewellSlice · 07/03/2015 10:51

But those who want to blame "Westminster" for their problems have the perfect answer amd antidote in the SNP. There is not the same need for a UKIP here. You can thrash Labour via the SNP. Simple.

trixymalixy · 07/03/2015 10:55

I agree with Sukie too. The SNP will not make good policy decisions as they are so caught up in wanting independence for Scotland at any cost.

claig · 07/03/2015 10:56

'But those who want to blame "Westminster" for their problems'

But UKIP serves the same purpose; UKIP also blames Westminster, but not because most of them are English, but because most of them are luvvies.

UKIP will change the system and kick the luvvies out but it will also challenge the authoritarian progressive policies of the SNP and fight for liberty and libertarian policies which get petty bureaucrats, progressives and luvvies off the backs of the people and allow people to have local democracy and local decision making without needing luvvies and bureaucrats as intermediaries messing things up, lining their pockets and claiming their expenses from the public purse.

BakewellSlice · 07/03/2015 11:38

Yes Ukip is serving as a conduit for disaffection with the elite in England. But we don't need that in Scotland as the SNP fulfil that role nicely!

Also there is a strong wish here to hang on to public services and the welfare state that the SNP have allied themselves with (cynically imo - they would ditch all for a "free" Scotland, the clue is in their name)

Also Scotland doesn't seem to hate bureaucrats at all, there is usually an appetite for the government to "do something".

claig · 07/03/2015 11:55

'But we don't need that in Scotland as the SNP fulfil that role nicely! '

Yes, but the SNP want independence and according to the referendum, the majority of people in Scotland do not want it. The progressive SNP will become the new elite and as some of their progressive "named people" type policies are enacted, the people will begin to oppose those policies.

'Also Scotland doesn't seem to hate bureaucrats at all, there is usually an appetite for the government to "do something".'

We all want government to do something, just not the wrong thing. The government is in the hands of the luvviesThat is what is wrong. When that is changed and it is in the hands of the people in a real proportioanal representation democracy then the divide between the people and the Oxbridge progressive political class will disappear and the people will want government to carry out common sense policies and maintain national control over national resources rather than privatising all our assets. That is why there is no future for the Tories who serve business and not the people amd no future for Labour who serve the progressives and not the people.

A bureaucracy that serves the people is fine, but a bureaucracy that serves the luvvie class is not.

Politics is about philosophy and ideas. Our elite have demonstrably failed because they had the wrong ideas, the wrong philosophy. That is why people have become disaffected with them and turned to the SNP and UKIP. Our elite were trained in the same schools and universities and were trained with the wrong ideas that served only an elite and ignored the people.

The sand is shifting under the luvvies, the ground is breaking up and in desperation, the luvvies may have to create a grand coalition of Labour/Tory PPEs to temporarily hold back the tide of the people's insurgency and maintain the Establishment's discredited philosophy which the luvvies serve.

But they are fighting a losing battle because they are fighting the people and their democratic will. Democracy will win, proportional representation will win, social mobility and change will win. The people will win. They can't stop progress, their windmills can't turn back the clock. Their time is up, democracy will win.

claig · 07/03/2015 12:12

'It’s The Failure Of Modern Liberalism That Has Propelled UKIP’s Rise'

This is a briliant article by a director of the leftwing Demos think tank, beloved by the New Labour progressive PPE class. It shows that the progressives are starting to get it. They won't all get it, they can't all admit that they were wrong, but the writing is on the wall that ther time is up.

The article is very good but it gets some things wrong. It fails to realise that PEGIDA is part of the dying tricks of the global elite who try to use divide and rule to save themselves from the real people's insurgency which will bring in democratic change. It also fails to undertand that the UKIP phenomenon is about freedom, freedom from the luvvies and their nanny state progressive "named people" type policies. But apart from those two issues, it is a brilliant article.

claig · 07/03/2015 12:18

And I think the reason that the SNP will ultimately fail in their wish to gain independence is because they are progressive and the tide is turning against progressives all over Europe. The tide will eventually lap up on the shores of Scotland too and the UKIP people's insurgency will score victories in Scotland too.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/03/2015 12:20

Yes, but the SNP want independence and according to the referendum, the majority of people in Scotland do not want it.

Polls have shown that 70something (I think) % of Scots want home rule, ie everything except defence/foreign policy, and more than that want further devolution.

If the SNP do have some control in WM they will be a useful check on Labour. Labour is pretty far to the right these days, whilst SNP is just left of centre (see Political Compass website).

People in Scotland, whether they voted yes or no are pretty pissed off with the fact that all the further devolution promised with a no voye isn't going to happen, that their vote makes no difference to who rules WM, and that WM looks after the SE of England first. The SNP can't force through policies that are bad for England/good for Scotland, remember they are going to be miniscule in number compared to Lab/Con.

claig · 07/03/2015 12:26

'and that WM looks after the SE of England first'

But if that was so, then why is the biggest success of the UKIP people's insurgency in Essex and Kent in the South East of England just miles from London itself. Westminster does not look after the South East of England and its people, it looks after the Establishment class.

claig · 07/03/2015 12:45

'Polls have shown that 70something (I think) % of Scots want home rule, ie everything except defence/foreign policy, and more than that want further devolution.'

Yes, this is happening everywhere but to a lesser extent than in Scotland.

People have given up hope with how we are ruled and we all want a greater say and want power to be devolved to us in a more democratic way. The battle will now be how to achieve this. The progressives and luvvies will argue for greater tiers of bureaucrats who are controlled by them and who claim expenses from the people and the people's insurgency will argue for less government and more power for the people in local referenda and via direct democratic voting and recall. The big government luvvies, modernisers and liberals will lose that fight too and their grip on power will be diminished as the people claim back the right to have a greater voice in how they are governed. Far fewer of the people's representatives will come from Oxbridge and far more will come from ordinary backgrounds. there will be fewer barristers and more bar staff, fewer management consultants and more workers. The people will be represented by themselves and the greedy guzzlers who feel they are worth more than an MP's pay can leave the house and find work elsewhere to make room for people who believe in public service above higher perks and pay from the public purse.

The battle will be big government vs small government, luvvies versus liberty and I think the progressives will lose.

BakewellSlice · 07/03/2015 16:17

It's true I think that it is misguided to see Westminster as looking out for the geographical area of the South East, but that is the way it plays out in Scotland.

John Reid accused the SNP of using Westminster as code for the English.

In a coalition SNP would naturally push for Scotland, Labour - well I don't know who they represent anymore tbh, so I think it might end up leaving English WC voters even more adrift. I definitely think it would threaten the English populations support for the Union.

niceguy2 · 10/03/2015 09:08

My fear is that the SNP rule only in the favour of Scotland. I guess some will argue that the same is true for the other parties but I'm not sure in reality that is the truth. However the SNP are unashamedly putting Scotland first which is fair enough....but is that who we want to hold the balance of power? I guess if you are part of Scotland then it will sound like a perfectly good idea. For the rest of the UK....not so much.

As for Conservative/Labour coalition, I guess if that's the way voters have voted then in theory they have a duty to at least see if they could make it work. Whilst in reality on the major topics they are on the same page, I doubt it will realistically ever happen

peggyundercrackers · 12/03/2015 11:44

niceguy im in Scotland and wouldn't vote for SNP if it was the last party standing. I think they are a vile party - they are small minded, divisive and have racist undertones - they are very territorial. people here do think westminster is a code word for England/English - people tell you your not really Scottish because you wont vote SNP or because you voted NO in the referendum.

I wonder if SNP would push for rules like legal guardians for all children in the UK and identity cards in the same way they are making these changes in Scotland?

claig · 12/03/2015 12:20

'I wonder if SNP would push for rules like legal guardians for all children in the UK and identity cards in the same way they are making these changes in Scotland?'

There would be no chance of getting those type of socialist policies through in England. For a start, the people of Essex and Kent, prime UKIP territory, would never vote for that type of thing.

claig · 12/03/2015 12:22

I could see Labour and some Tory modernisers trying it on in England, but then UKIP support would go through the roof.

peggyundercrackers · 12/03/2015 13:08

claig do you think people in Scotland are getting the choice of voting for these policies? of course not because we don't know right from wrong...

claig · 12/03/2015 16:46

I know most people in Scotland are socialist, but how they can put up with poiicies like that is beyond me. That is why I believe that one day UKIP will do well in Scotland too, because they are the only real opposition to policies like that left in te whole of the UK because Tory modernisers are a waste of time and just roll over and lap that type of stuff up.

HappydaysArehere · 07/04/2015 23:18

A viper in our midst springs to mind.

STIDW · 07/04/2015 23:33

I'm not sure that a Lab/SNP coalition would be a bad thing but personally I think a minority government would be better. That way all the parties would have to work together like they do in many other countries.

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