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Politics

The Cult Of Farage - Hero's Welcome In the US

109 replies

claig · 27/02/2015 13:26

They love him in the States just like we do here!

"Nigel Farage was among his fans in the US.

"He's awesome and cool," 20-year-old Alain Robert told Sky News.

Political writer Randy Foreman was even more gushing saying the UKIP leader had all the appeal of James Bond.

"He's absolutely a fantastic politician. We just don't have them here like that in the United States."

news.sky.com/story/1435132/the-cult-of-farage-heros-welcome-in-us

We don't have 'em like that here, apart from the legend that is Farage

"Mr Farage's YouTube videos berating European bureaucrats and taking on the might of Westminster have made him something of a cult figure on the right of American politics.

So organisers of the biggest political event of the year for US conservatives, the Conservative Political Action Conference just outside Washington DC, invited him this year instead of a British conservative politician - a break with tradition."

There are no British Conservative politicians left. They are all a progressive Oxbridge joke, the People's Army will free us from their PPE yoke.

It is a shame Farage wasn't born in the States because they'd make him President without a doubt. I guess we're lucky that he is UK only, so that he will be PM here one day.

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blacksunday · 14/03/2015 21:20

The reason UKIP call themselves the People's Army is because they see themselves as representing the people in a battle with the ruling Establishment elite. They see this battle as important because they feel that the Establishment protects and looks after itself and does not represent the people.

Yes, that's was fascists do. They call themselves 'the peoples party' against the establishment.

That's what the Nazis did, and that's what Mussolini's fascist party did.

That's the whole point of fascism, it's a far right populist party. It is an appeal to 'the masses', who, in reality, as a subset of the population and labels themselves as the 'in group'.

The 'out group' is scapegoated as the cause of the countries problems. In this case, it's primarily immigrants, but like also fascist parties, they also have a disdain and hatred for the poor, weak, and disabled. Women are afforded second class status, according to 'traditional values'.

blacksunday · 14/03/2015 21:24

And UKIPs policies are entirely regressive - and that is a bad thing.

Whenever any UKIP councillor has spoken of policies or about people who don't fit in to the 'in group' (Wealthy, British-born, Christian, white, male), then they come out with the most ludicrous and offensive crap.

It's not 'politically correct' to have laws against racial discrimination. It's the mark of a civilised society.

UKIP would get rid of such laws. Your assertion that they stick up for 'the people' again is shown to be absurd - unless by 'the people' you mean the 'in group' typified by fascist ideology.

claig · 14/03/2015 21:33

I'm one of the masses and not one of the metropolitan elite, so I am with the people against their stitch-ups, perks, moats, duck houses, backhanders, lobbyist fees and unrepresentative Lord Snooty policies from Eton and Oxbridge that ignore the people's wishes.

It's not fascism, it's populism, it's the people. Don't fall for the tricks of the public school boy teenage whizz kids funded by hedge fund billionaires who call a people's insurgency against the ruling class fascist in order to try and stop people voting for what is in their interests and not the interests of the elite.

UKIP represnt all of the people and they have ethnic minority candidates and their Disability Spokesman is a woman who is herself disabled. Don't fall for the smears of the teenage whizz kids from Eton and Oxfiord. They are as tricky as they get. Scruples have they none. They can't even spell the word never mind know what it means.

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LumpySpacedPrincess · 14/03/2015 21:40

I'm one of the masses too claig and I find UKIP abhorant.

claig · 14/03/2015 21:44

That's fine. People are different. That is the great thing about the free country and democratic system that we live in. Everybody is free to argue their case - Ed Miiband, Cameron abd Farage - and everybody is free to choose which one to vote for e.g. Farage.

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blacksunday · 14/03/2015 21:44

You talk a lot of crap about elitism, blah blah, but you never actually discuss their policies, apart from from vaguely listing what you think they may be.

Citing that UKIP has a disability spokesman is meaningless. Anyone can have a disability spokesman. Fascist parties are never completely honest with their policies and intentions until they are elected because they know the public would never put them in to power in the first place if they did.

Farage himself said that he would abolish racial discrimination laws.

What do you think about this specific policy, claig? Do you agree they should be abolished?

UKIP have claimed that disabled people are a “parasitic underclass of scroungers”.

politicalscrapbook.net/2014/12/ukip-disability-benefit-claimants-are-parasitic-underclass-of-scroungers/

Disability groups, meanwhile, have come out strongly against UKIP as a threat:

Why the Rise of UKIP is dangerous for disabled people

dpac.uk.net/2013/05/why-the-rise-of-ukip-is-dangerous-for-disabled-people/

Do you agree that disabled people are a “parasitic underclass of scroungers”, claig?

claig · 14/03/2015 21:59

'You talk a lot of crap about elitism'

Show me one instance where I have done that. Salient points that get to the heart of the matter, yes. Crap, absolutely not!

'but you never actually discuss their policies'

Have I not praised their policy to scrap the elite's Climate Change Act profusely? Have I not lauded local referenda, direct democracy and proportional representation which will put power into the hands of the people and prevent the tricks of the teenage whizz kids? who serve the unaccountable elites? Fabulous stuff. It doesn't get much better.

'Farage himself said that he would abolish racial discrimination laws. '

That doesn't seem to be exactly what he said. He has clarified it differently. He said employers should be allowed to give preference to British nationals over foreign nationals.

'UKIP have claimed that disabled people are a “parasitic underclass of scroungers”.'

I missed that. Which UKIP spokesman said that and what was the reaction of UKIP's Disability Spokesman who is disabled?

'Do you agree that disabled people are a “parasitic underclass of scroungers”, claig?'

Of course not and nor do UKIP, Britain's third largest political party by share of votes.

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LumpySpacedPrincess · 14/03/2015 22:19

That doesn't seem to be exactly what he said. He has clarified it differently. He said employers should be allowed to give preference to British nationals over foreign nationals.

He was asked a direct question on whether there would be a law against discrimination on the grounds of race or colour and he replied no

"No... because we take the view, we are colour-blind. We as a party are colour-blind."

Unfortunately society is not "colour blind"

blacksunday · 15/03/2015 13:07

Oh yeah... promcoming - cool! ;)

claig · 16/03/2015 00:59

Excellent interview with Farage which goes into Farage and KIP's anti Establishment stance and Farage's political incorrectness in challenging the elite's political consensus. The article tries to understand why the Establishment fears him so much and it is because he dares stick a finger up to their political correctness, their political consensus.

The article doesn't explain their real fear, but their real fear is that they know they are conning the public with their political correctness consensus and Farage is the boy who cried the politically correct Emperor has no clothes and he will expose the emptiness of their political consensus and carry the people with him. There is nothing their Oxford teenage spinners can do because lies ae powerless against the truth.

www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/im-taking-on-the-establishment-and-they-hate-me-for-it/16758#.VQYklqJyaic

'I’m taking on the establishment, and they hate me for it’
...
We’re interrupted every five minutes by passers-by who want to shake Farage’s hand or get a selfie with him. (‘Go to UKIP dot org and become a member. Bloody well do it!’, he tells one young fan.)
...
One thing on the Farage Mind is the total out-of-touchness of his opponents in the upcoming General Election: the three main political parties. ‘They’re over-advised. They’re scared. They view the whole operation of politics as playing safe
...
One thing on the Farage Mind is the total out-of-touchness of his opponents in the upcoming General Election: the three main political parties. ‘They’re over-advised. They’re scared. They view the whole operation of politics as playing safe, as if criticism is a bad thing.
...
It’s hard to remember in recent years any other person or thing being the recipient of as much samey, uniform media bashing as Farage.
...
From the newspaper of record, The Times, to the favoured newspaper of the new elites, the Guardian, and in pretty much every shade of commentary in between, Farage is bogeyman du jour
...
The media now act, says Farage, like the guardians of ‘what is considered right-thinking’, and this is why they hate him with such rash feeling — his thoughts, his ideas, his politics are, by their judgment, un-right thinking, and thus must be shouted, or better still shut, down.

‘All through the civilisation of human beings, people form establishments’, he says: ‘An interwoven network that actually has a very big generational context, in that it hands on down. And we are challenging the establishment — we are challenging their very thought; we are challenging the very basis upon which they exist and operate. And there is nobody in history who has taken on the establishment and has not received the kind of treatment I am getting.’
...
No, it’s something else about UKIP that gets the goat of the great and good — it’s a vibe, an attitude, a reluctance to stick to the ‘binary politics’ script, and a sometimes unprofessional and fruitily worded stab at some of the sacred cows of modern politics. ‘It’s because we challenge the consensus’, says Farage.

Consensus, and the breaking of it, and the blowback you get as a consequence, comes up again and again in our chat. And there’s no doubt that Farage is off-message, sometimes gloriously so, on a lot of what passes for mainstream, unquestioned political thought in modern Britain. Take climate change. What politician these days would admit to laughing about the polar bears? Farage would.
...
The politics of environmentalism is utterly hostile to progress, he says. ‘If Natalie Bennett won the election, we’d all be living in caves’, he says with a chortle. ‘[This politics] is very regressive. There is nothing progressive in terms of the evolution of society or living standards in what these people stand for. And the whole thing is based on a fallacy: that our fossil fuels are going to run out and therefore we have to adapt the way we live.
...
Here, Farage is kicking against one of the key planks of 21st-century consensus politics: the idea of planetary vulnerability and human hubris. And he gets massive flak for it. ‘[Climate change] is like a religion’, he says. ‘And you’re demonised if you question it. Ostracised completely.
...
Or take the nanny state, or the nudge industry, or the public-health lobby — whatever it’s being called these days. Here, too, Farage rips up a firmly established script.
...
‘It’s the modern puritanism’, he says of the bossy new politics of lifestyle micromanagement. ‘It’s about controlling people. It is the same paternalistic agenda from the great and the good, who think they know better than ordinary folk what is good for them.’
...
Or take Ukraine. Farage is the only mainstream politician to have challenged the idea that the nasty war there is the handiwork of an Empire-dreaming Vladimir Putin. Farage’s big concern is with ‘the territorial ambitions of the European Union and NATO’, which, he tells me, ‘do not comprehend the mindset of Russia, which feels deeply threatened by this behaviour’: ‘If you poke the Russian bear with a stick, don’t be surprised if the bear reacts.’ He has no time for the celebration of the protesters in Maidan Square in Kiev, who, with the backing of Angela Merkel and John Kerry, toppled the Yanukovych government in 2014, precipitating the war. ‘I think the bringing down of an albeit corrupt but legitimately elected leader of Ukraine by people in that square waving EU flags… was disgusting’, he says firmly, and angrily. It was anti-democratic, he insists, and he isn’t wrong. Yet here, too, he’s been demonised, branded a Putin sympathiser, because once again he failed to read from the samey script of the political and media establishment.

‘I’ve been met with general horror’, he says. ‘See? We have consensus politics today, on everything. Everyone agrees on everything.’
...
Listening to Farage, I don’t hear a racist or a fruitcake or a loon. Actually, I hear someone who says things that aren’t a million miles away from what Old Labour used to say.
...
The mainstream media and chattering-class fury with Farage is really a story of the terrifying narrowing of the political sphere in Britain in recent years. Concrete consensuses have emerged on everything from the environment (endangered) to economic growth (not a great idea), from the spread of the welfare state (unquestionably brilliant) to the policing of personal lifestyle (all good). And a vast battery of insults, often pathological, have arisen to chastise anyone who pricks any of these consensus views. Question the environment thing and you’re a DENIER. Wonder if Western democracy is superior to Islamist radicalism and you’re ISLAMOPHOBIC. Challenge the smoking ban and you’re PRO-CANCER. The things it is acceptable to think and say shrink all the time, and the parameters of thought and opinion are tightly policed by the media, the Twittersphere and politicians themselves. Farage is feared, across the board, because he stands, often self-consciously, outside the bland, ideology-free, human-suspicious moral and political agenda now promoted by all sides in British politics and the media.'

Fabulous stuff. It's about freedom and ruling for the people. It's about putting the teenage whizz kids from Oxbridge back in their classrooms and seminars where they belong and letting the people be governed by common sense once again. They fear Farge because they fear the masses, they fear the people, they fear the truth.

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claig · 16/03/2015 01:12

No wonder they won't give Farage much air time in a TV debate. As Farage said

‘They’re over-advised. They’re scared. They view the whole operation of politics as playing safe'

Their teenage whizz kid advisers from Oxbrdige won't be up on the stage with them, they'll be up there alone against the leader of the People's Army. They'll be like the Emperor who had no clothes against Farage, and the people will mock them when Farage exposes their politically correct platitudes. He'll wipe the floor with them, that's why there won't be many TV debates where they have to face criticism and scrutiny.

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DarrylCampbell · 17/03/2015 22:00

I've got to admit, I really don't agree with the stance of UKIP regarding a lot of their core issues. I am, however, overjoyed at their existence because they have managed to create a debate within Britain where previously there was none. Moreover, I think a referendum should definitely be had on the European question to settle things once and for all.

I do feel that an united Europe is the way forward though, for whilst the EU may have it's faults they can be ironed out over time. The problems that affect each and every one of us are common problems throughout the continent and only with solidarity, shared dialogue and breaking down the barriers between ourselves can we truly begin to overcome these problems. Take a look at the US for example, that's one mighty country and they have made it by working together. Some states would be incredibly poor and unable to defend themselves without the federal government there to transfer large amounts of funds to them. Sure, it's not perfect, but what is? Imagine what would happen if all the states become separate nations once more. They would be creating conflicts where previously there were none and there would be nobody there to enforce the final word. The whole area would become entirely inefficient too because they'd have to replicate many more things than they currently do. That's just my opinion though, which is subjective, it's not fact.

claig · 17/03/2015 22:28

The United States is one country with one language. Europe consists of different countries with different languages, customs and histories. It is not homogeneous, it is heterogeneous.

The EU is an elitist business club run by servants of the elites, banks and corporations. It removes sovereignty from nations and increases the divide between the people and power, which is what the elite want.

How many MEPs do you know about? How often are they interviewed on BBC Newsnight? How much do you know about what they are voting about? How many of them are even ever on BBC Question Time or Any Questions? They pass laws of which we have no knowledge and over which we have no influence. What they pass is rarely discussed in our media which is supposed to hold law makers to account on behalf of the people but which lets the servants of the elite get on with it in Brussels without informing us or scrutinising them.

The EU is a superstate, a supranational body over which the constituent nations have limited power and in which the individual peoples are mainly powerless and ignorant of what the fat cat servants on expenses actually get up to.

They passed laws to ban our old lightbulbs and replace them with mercury filled ones instead and we had no vote. They ban our old vaccuum cleaners for their green climate crusade and that is only the start of what they intend to do and we, the people, will have no chance to kick them out or vote against it.

The EU is undemocratic, run by an elite who serve a greater unaccountable elite. That is why socialists like Tony Benn and Arthur Scargill and Bob Crow were against it, and that is why the People's Army is against it.

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claig · 17/03/2015 22:39

Remember how the Establishment put the best man they had up against the leader of the People's Army in debate. They put Cleggy, Cambridge and College of Europe graduate, probably cum laude, certainly cum luvvie, whose middle name is "Fairness" up against Farage. They thought the Europhile Cleggy would defeat the people's champion, but by the end of the second debate, they were under no illusion that they were in serious trouble and that the People's Army was a force to be reckoned with.

They called on their think tanks, the best teenage whizz kids from Oxbridge they could muster, every luvvie in the land was called upon to help them try and stop the People's Army. Smears were used, jeers were used but all they heard was the cheers of the people as the votes of the People's Army were counted on election night.

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DarrylCampbell · 17/03/2015 23:15

Regarding the language of Europe Claig, the uniting one is actually English. So many people speak it (I'm living on the continent, so I should know) especially among the younger generations. If we ever do become a country I'm sure that English will become the main language, it'd make the most sense also seeing as it is the lingua franca of today's times. European history has been shared for thousands of years, think of the Romans, shared military, artistic, musical and academic history. When you spend a lot of time travelling across the continent I think you'll find we are all not that much different apart from a few quirky things. After all, what creatd the US? Europeans joining together and I think if they can do it successfully then so can we.

You're right though, the EU is not very transparent in some respects and it really does not gain much media attention. A lot of this I feel boils down to a few things though. Our own leaders aren't willing to give up power so easily, so they don't talk about Europe much and remain defacto shared rulers of the EU by retaining seats in the council of ministers. So effectively, when you vote for the government you're also voting that party into a shared rulership role of the EU but they don't make that very clear. The media I think don't cover Europe so much because it doesn't really excite people. What do you think?

claig · 17/03/2015 23:45

'Regarding the language of Europe Claig, the uniting one is actually English. '

That may well be a temporary phenomenon. In 100 years, it could well be German. It's all about economics, and English is only the lingua franca now because of US power and economic might. It all depends on whether the United States remains the number one power and if the dollar is still the reserve currency. The whole hostility towards Russia is about dollar hegemony and the rise of China. So the world will change in 100 years time. Also in the United States, apart from in Hispanic areas, there is only one main language and that is English. In Europe, the main language in Hungary is Hungarian and not English. English is the business language used by the elites but not by the majority of the people in local discourse.

'When you spend a lot of time travelling across the continent I think you'll find we are all not that much different apart from a few quirky things.'

I think you are wrong. Everything is about self-determination. The French people will not put up with being ruled by a non-French elite over the longterm. The Greek electorate voted against the EU Troika austerity but they are powerless against the supranational institutions. It is a recipe for disaster because it goes against the right to self-determination.

'If we ever do become a country I'm sure that English will become the main language, it'd make the most sense also seeing as it is the lingua franca of today's times.'

This is an example of insular arrogance in my opinion. Tell that to a French farmer or a German shopkeeper or an Italian factory worker. You underestimate culture, history and national pride.

'European history has been shared for thousands of years, think of the Romans, shared military, artistic, musical and academic history'

Yes, Europe's civilization is a Greco-Roman one, but it was spread by force, by the Roman Empire and its Holy Roman Empire inheritors. We live in different times and the Greeks and others, particularly the French, will not forever put up with German hegemony in Europe. Force can no longer be used to maintain an Empire, and economic force will also fail as the Euro crisis is showing.

'After all, what creatd the US? Europeans joining together and I think if they can do it successfully then so can we.'

They created a new land without any previous European history. They created the New World, but Europe is the Old World with roots that go back to the beginnings of human civilization, that stretch back through thousands of years of history. You can't create a New World or a New Workd Order in Europe because the Old World will win.

'Our own leaders aren't willing to give up power so easily'

The reality is our rulers don't have much power. As the People's Army say, roughly 75% of our laws are made in Europe and not in our House of Commons. John Major had to go to Germany and almost beg the Germans to help Cameron out of a hole over immigration because the People's Army was on his tail over the issue. The whole EU position over Ukriane and Russia shows thedominance of Brussels and the weakness of individual European countries who oppose the policy but are forced to go along with it for economic and membership reasons.

'when you vote for the government you're also voting that party into a shared rulership role of the EU but they don't make that very clear'

They don't make it clear deliberately because they don't want the people to realise how much sovereignty we have lost because then the people would flock to the People's Army and the servants of the EU would displease their masters by letting the people know what is going on. When you vote for a government, you should be voting for people whom you can hold to account for all the laws that are passed and whom you can kick out if you are not satisfied with policy. You can't do that with the EU because more than 20 separate countries make it up.

'The media I think don't cover Europe so much because it doesn't really excite people. What do you think?'

I think the media doesn't cover it because then it would become evident how little power we have over it and that would lead to people wanting to claim sovereignty and power back so that the people are in charge rather than an unaccountable elite of College of Europe type luvvies from Oxbridge and elsewhere who serve banking and business masters.

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DarrylCampbell · 17/03/2015 23:52

I like your points, I'll consider them and reply properly another time. But for now my apologies but I must sleep, nice chatting with you.

claig · 17/03/2015 23:55

OK, good night.

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LumpySpacedPrincess · 18/03/2015 21:02

His book is getting some great reviews. Wink

claig · 18/03/2015 22:09
Grin

Some of the comments are bang on such as the following

Well done Nigel ...
You have the PC liberal lefties who supposedly 'run' this once great country running scared hence the other reviews.
...
Well done Sir"

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claig · 18/03/2015 22:24

The only fly in the ointment has been voiced by Suzanne Moore in the Guardian. She thinks UKIP has peaked and Farage is becoming just like all the rest and that he is ready to bow out and go elsewhere. She may be right.

"What did a dry January do for him? Now often pictured without the obligatory pint and fag in hand, he has become a somewhat diminished presence in the media. Lacking his naughty props, he looks like every other politician, only with a strangely retro wardrobe.

Looking like every other politician is the worst thing that can happen for Farage, who trades on his “difference” and his “telling it like it is” outsider status. Yet the nearer we get to this listless election, the more he is playing the game that he said he wouldn’t play"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/18/ukip-has-peaked-nigel-farage-now-resembles-every-other-politician

The People's Army did find Farage's alcohol free January worrying and saw it as a sign that the teenage think tanks whizz kids from Oxbridge had got to Farge and were leading him up an Establishment cul-de-sac. The People's Army worried that Farage may announce that he was working for a charidee next, just like every other failed Labour luvvie.

Farage seems to be losing some of his usual fighting style in defending the people against the luvvies and some of his recent TV performances have been somewhat lacklustre to say the least and have disappounted the People's Army who want him to take the fight to the luvvies and the modernisers and give them what for. This is no time for being like the rest, the People's Army expects more.

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LumpySpacedPrincess · 19/03/2015 06:11

I read that too Claig and I think she may be right. Farage is charismatic whether you like him or loathe him, it's hard for him to please his supporters and gather new support without making comments which are deeply offensive to others. I'm hoping he won't even get in in thanet and we can stop this thing here.

Obviously, we will have to agree to differ on that point

I really liked the comment that said the book was unpickupable, after they had put it down they simply couldn't pick it up again. Grin

claig · 19/03/2015 09:20

Yes, that was a very clever and funny comment, although plainly untrue.

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LumpySpacedPrincess · 19/03/2015 18:25

Bah, you say tomato...

LumpySpacedPrincess · 19/03/2015 19:24

i see Janice Atkinson has been suspended.

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