The UK and the EU

[eae123]

Hi all,

I'm 16 and currently doing some debate prep for a debating competition in a few weeks time

The motion is 'should the UK stay part of the European Union' and we are 'for' the motion. I have been watching a debate between Nigel Farage and NicK Clegg (who believes we should stay in the EU) but so far his points have been a bit wet

So I was wondering if you had any strong points I could debate on why the UK should stay in the European Union which I know is not a popular decision

Thanks x

here is a website for pro EU
newspaper article
another newspaper article

I have to ask as I am nosey
What made you choose this website for your research? There is loads on info on the web.

Thank you for those links,

I chose mumsnet due to all the different users who live all sorts of lives to see what their opinion might be

The UK gives £55 million each day to the EU

You could start by researching what we get in return for that money or what that sum would buy us in terms if hospitals, education, infrastructure improvements etc, if we chose to keep it ans do end it ourselves.

You could research the recent decision by Iceland nit to seek to join the EU or Norway reasons fir staying out if the EU or Turkey's reasons fir wanting to join

Ultimately the argument is one of sovereignty, which us the right to govern your country without having to obey laws that are dictated to you by unelected EU Commissioners

OK, best luck with your debate!

WetAugust
The op is looking for debates for not against.

Ooops. Good luck with reasons to stay in. I've never found one yet and I've been studying the issue for years

Here are some of the old chestnuts that are trotted out for staying - all absolute rubbish

The Jobs of 3,000,000 UK workers depend on the UK being in the EU

Britain could not survive on it's own

It brought and keeps peace in Europe

It is the UKs biggest export market

What would happen to the millions of pensioners living in Spain if we left the EU, so we must stay in

We need to make law at a European level for it to be effective

If you want to know why none if these reasons are valid please let me know.

Anticipating the arguments against, and pre-emptively countering them, will make your argument stronger. So getting a good, solid list of what benefits we get from EU will be useful (especially for questions after).

Right now, arguments on fraternité and closer cooperation on security issues would be a plus point. But loss of self-determination in terms of security/diplomatic/even military spheres would be the counter argument.

What level of union within Europe will you be arguing for? Or is the idea that it could change going to feature as a strong point?

Also, don't forget global perspective. US, Russia and China are bigger and well-armed players on the world stage. UK and France are nuclear powers, and the other two members of the UN Security Council. Does Europe as a whole need a different voice internationally? And if so what doe it look like?

Thank you both WetAugust and EdithWeston they are really helpful points. At the moment, I have a few points but mostly about trade and the EU.

Both your points have helped me understand the EU a bit more so thank you again

Britain could not survive on it's own

Of course it could. The question isn't if it could or not. It is whether we'd collectively have a better quality of life/economy inside the EU than outside.

Most people who want us to leave the EU are against it because of:

1. Immigration - Except they rarely look at emigration. So they get all up in arms about the 500k people moving here to blighty but they never think about those brits who leave to live elsewhere. When you look at the net migration stats it's around 260k of which only 140k come from other EU countries.

To put that into context we have a population of 60m. The increase in population from EU countries last year was 0.2%. Hardly the FLOOD that the papers are bleating on about. In fact, a storm in a teacup. Source: Immigration stats

Plus given the aging population you could argue we need more immigration, not less.

2. The cost of the EU - The papers put things in like the EU costs us £55million per day! Ouch. Except again it neatly ignores what we get back out of it. We get our annual rebate of course and lots of other grants and projects. The net contribution is about half of the headline figure. £24m a day or £8.6billion a year. Still a lot of money as a standalone amount for sure.

But when you consider the government spend nearly £700 billion a year and £48 billion a year just on our debt interest. Again as a proportion of our spending it's about 1%.

And what do we get in return? Fundamentally we get freely trade with any of the other 27 member states which collectively makes it the biggest trading zone in the world. If you think of the UK as a business then would you as the head of the business pay a 1% membership fee to be able to sell freely in the biggest market in the world? Of course you would.

3. The EU meddles in our laws. - Yes it does. But by and large how many of those laws are so heinous we'd scrap and not replace anyway? I mean the European law on human rights sounds like a pretty good idea to me. I like having human rights. Ditto with working time laws. It's nice to know we aren't forced to work til we drop.

Sure there are some laws we probably wouldn't have exactly the same but then do we agree with every single law our UK parliament has passed? There's some stupid laws there too.

I could go on and on. But basically I think if you look at BOTH sides of the debate then you will find the EU overall is a good thing economically speaking. Politically it could do with a bit of an overhaul but I'm afraid the press have been so one sided in this country that I fear it won't be possible to have any sensible debate.

These articles look like a reasonable place to start www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-inout-question-why-britain-should-stay-in-the-eu-9213131.html

proeuropa.org.uk/twelevereasons/

Cheaper air fares
Better mobile phone rates
Freedom to work elsewhere
Standardisation of food quality
Ability to provide enough food to be self sufficient
Better air and water quality
Better conditions for workers

and of course the reason for the damn thing

Less likelihood of another World War.

Off the top of my head, the EU presents a united front against the far right (UKIP, Front Nationale, etc.).

I wouldn't say staying in the EU is an unpopular decision, parties supporting an in/out referendum will never have my vote, and many others feel the same.

There's plenty of anti-EU propaganda being flung about (to do with immigration figures and what it costs us) which can easily be disproved. I would recommend getting a hold of the genuine figures in case the other side have the wrong information, it could be used as another argument for staying in if their figures are exaggerated, for example.

(American perspective): Britain is a fuck all unimportant country without being part of the EU bloc & we think you're nuts to want your country to be even less influential in the world. Okay, you've got nukes. So do North Korea and Pakistan. And see how much respect they get.

Do you want a reason to stay for your debate?

Pretty much all of the environmental laws that have any teeth in the UK come from Europe. It protects our wildlife, landscapes, habitats, seas.

EU Habitats Directive

The EU penalises countries that don't step up to the mark environmentally. Without it, the UK would do whatever the heck it wanted and sell all our land off to industry and / or game keepers.

And if you want to know what environmental law without the checks and balances of the EU would look like - look no further than the USA.

Economic pro-EU argument at British Influence

I'm surprised, being 16, you like Farage. He polls really badly amongst young people.