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Ukip ‘deficit, what deficit’ 2015 tax bribes; yet more electoral deceit.

12 replies

Isitmebut · 27/09/2014 15:09

Ukip, the higher taxpayer remunerated MEPs doing sod all, who has the gall to challenge the ethics and competence of the ‘Westminster elite’, has in their Conference reached new political lows.

An EU/Immigration policy after 20-years they still know they can never deliver, a relentless nationalistic threat on the status quo (struggling after the worst recession in 100-years) and similar to the seeds sown in 1930’s Italy and Germany - and NOW for soundbite voters, they offer the economics of a banana republic, a few years before the IMF are called in.

When looking at political party ‘smoke and mirrors’ deception, there is only one thing worse than saying you will drastically cut the expected £75 billion UK annual budget deficit in 2015 when your sums don’t scratch the surface - it is when a desperate mono EU policy political party most voters now know they can’t deliver – offers a sweetie bag of tax cut bribes, that would make the deficit substantially worse.

For a start Ukip is using a disingenuous assumption that much of what they’d offer would be mainly financed by leaving the EU, when apart from knowing what we’d £££really save, they can not deliver a UK out of the EU, so they would depend on the Conservatives they will ensure don’t (as in 2010) get a parliamentary majority in 2015, delivering an EU Referendum in 2017 – and finally, basing their spending on a Referendum RESULT they don’t know, half way through a 5-year parliament, having ‘spent’ the money already. Hmmm.

Additionally while a reduction of several ££billion spent on foreigners via the UK’s Foreign Aid budget is ‘low hanging fruit’ for a far right Ukip, quite how Ukip would ‘save’ money now on the total cost of High Speed 2, that would when budgeted for over 10- years plus, create short to long term UK GDP, jobs, and encourage businesses to move further to and around the north - is economic short termism for a party that will never be responsible for the growth of the county.

Ukip’s tax pledges include scrapping inheritance tax, take minimum wage earners out of tax altogether, and cut the tax rate from 40p to 35p for those on £42-55,000.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies think tank has suggested the entire package of tax changes could COST up to £19bn, when more money has to be spent on an NHS under pressure for increased usage and a population living longer and a national Debt that will be close to £1,500,000,000,000 (£1.5 trillion) in mid 2015.

So Ukip obtaining votes on being ‘different’, have descended from offering voters a 20-year immigration/EU ‘Disneyland’ broken promise, to bribes via ‘Mickey Mouse’ UK tax cuts, this country could not afford.

Yet Ukip say that they offer ‘ordinary politics that represent ordinary men and women’, which is what, knowingly offer policy lies, broken promises, and every household further in (National) Debt each year that passes? How dare they say they represent all of us.

Yet Ukip say that they are ‘a threat to the political classes’, when they are just a threat to politics; spreading dissatisfaction of the main political parties, that WILL engage old and new voters in the short term - but without even facing the realities of a deficit economy, bring political engagement down to a new low over the longer term.

The 2010 General Election was a democratic national disgrace; the government of 13-years in denial of the national problems refused to detail their ‘cut less & spend/tax more’ plans, and opposition parties were then attacked politically for mentioning theirs – resulting in 5-years of PMQT type ‘opposition’ politics. In 2015 the electorate MUST demand honesty this time, from ALL political parties.

"UKIP leader Nigel Farage has disowned the party's entire (2010) general election manifesto - which he helped launch - branding it "drivel”.
news.sky.com/story/1200525/nigel-farage-disowns-ukip-manifesto-as-drivel

OP posts:
Isitmebut · 27/09/2014 18:18

”From Glasgow to Barcelona, historian DOMINIC SANDBROOK fears Europe is returning to the crude nationalism that caused such misery”

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2763047/From-Glasgow-Barcelona-historian-DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-fears-Europe-returning-crude-nationalism-caused-misery.html


“As we have seen throughout history, from Germany and Italy in the 1930s to the war-torn Yugoslavia in the 1990s, nationalism thrives as a panacea, offering glib solutions and easy scapegoats. But it also offers an immensely compelling appeal to people who feel stranded by economic change and abandoned by their privileged political masters.”


In that sense, strange as it may sound, it is obvious why so many Scottish voters fell for the vision propounded by the demagogues, cranks and zealots so prominent in the separatist campaign.

”They believed that Mr Salmond offered them something better: a magic wand that would transform their fortunes overnight”


Those sentiments are not going to vanish overnight.

In many ways, they are the mirror image of the alienation felt by millions of voters in England.

”And in that respect, the rise of Scottish nationalism is not so different from the extraordinary surge in Ukip support south of the border, where Nigel Farage — another cheeky chap peddling simple solutions — plays the part of Mr Salmond.”

OP posts:
Isitmebut · 04/10/2014 14:17

In essence, Ukip offers the UK electorate nothing but ant-politics propaganda and far right nationalist misinformation, pretending they are different to a ‘Westminster elite’ they tell voters are ‘all the same’ but in truth have not been so different for decades i.e. on the EU, immigration and the economy.

The United Kingdom Independence Party, as it’s core policy says on the can, WAS for the UK to leave the EU and voters (wrongly) believing Ukip could offer that core policy trusted Ukip.

NOW Ukip is just ‘for’ parliamentary seats in Westminster, so don’t care what happens to the UK economically and hypocritically staying in the EU is now secondary to the Ukip MEP’s, earning £78,000 a year and set monthly expenses allowances of £3,5000 each. So why should Farage’s Ukip care if we leave soon, when it gives them more PAID time via future elections and by-elections to get seats in Westminster?

In 2015, it is a FACT that either the Conservative or the Labour Party will form the next government and the Labour Party have a significant boundary advantage, so what would this mean?

Vote Ukip get Labour; with near open door immigration to both EU and NON EU citizens, rather than the Conservatives who brought back NON EU immigration back to 1990’s levels - but saw a trending increase in EU citizens from the more ‘mature’ EU countries, currently attracted to the UK’s new jobs recovery, as the strongest economy within Europe.

Vote Ukip get Labour; and the EU Brown signed us up to without a UK Referendum, Miliband refuses to offer, Farage obtaining has never been able to offer (and a wasted vote as never will be able to in my lifetime) - while the Conservatives that with the majority needed in 2015, are totally committed to giving the people a ‘YES/NO’ Referendum in 2017.

Vote Ukip get Labour; on Human Right Act signed up by Blair after the Conservatives left office in 1998, whose constant interference in domestic ‘rights’ is left open to UK judges interpretation, which often means ‘the wrong sort of rights’ are being protected e.g. criminals/suspected terrorists, , so we need a British Bill of Rights the Conservatives wanted for years, held back by a Coalition partner forced upon them by Ukip voters in 2010.

Vote Ukip get Labour; who say manufacturing trend down from 23% to 12% of our economy and on trade, saa no further than trading within the EU member states - instead of encouraging the private sector to grow businesses and jobs to trade with the world - which is why in 2010, we were doing more trade with Ireland, than with the 2.4 billion citizens within the ‘emerged’ nations of Brazil, Russia, India and China.

Vote Ukip get Labour; who pathetically offer apprenticeships, but still only know how to grow the government/public sector and their penal taxes to finance fat quango government/waste, rather than the Conservatives who know how to keep government ‘lean’ and use that money to stimulate the private sector that provides sustainable investment/jobs, as evidenced by over 1.8 million new jobs since 2010.

Vote Ukip get Labour; who’s education direction over 13-years did not prepare our children academically and ready for work, which is why when Brown was boasting record employment and 2.5 million new citizens came to the UK to work - in 2004 there were 580,000 unemployed 16-24 year olds, by pre crash 2007 it had risen to 711,000 unemployed, and when Labour finally passed over 921,000 unemployed to the coalition in 2010, the Coalition had a broken and unbalanced economy with an annual £157 billion deficit/overspend, to reverse that trend.

Vote Ukip get Labour; on the NHS, a ministerial budget they refused to ‘ring fence’ in 2010 when due to immigration, the birth rate, an older population, the increased DEMAND was to add many tens of millions more GP appointment requests and A&E visits onto the system. Furthermore Labour says they won’t privatize the NHS, their record on incompetent use of private companies speaks for itself e.g. Private Finance Initiatives, the total value of the NHS buildings built by Labour under the scheme was £11.4 billion but the bill with additional services will come to more than £70 billion on current projections and will not be paid off until 2049.

Vote Ukip get Labour; on Housing/Social Housing that despite 2.5 million new citizens in the UK during a tax growth ‘boom’, overall there were the lowest peace time new builds since the 1920’s. And according to Shelter, from 1998 to 2007 the number of Social Homes declined by a net 10% to 3.8 million, yet at the end of March 2008, there were 5 million people within 1.77 million households on local authority housing registers (or housing waiting lists) for the allocation of a social home - just as we were entered the economic ‘bust’.

Furthermore, a Ukip enabled 2015 Labour win, constantly threatening the private sector with new state controls and taxes, will frighten away the prospects of new investment, not attract it – which makes any new housing figures they quote are as meaningless as their last record in government, when in the early years the private sector trusted them.

”General Election 2010: Ukip challenge 'cost Tories a Commons majority”
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/7693877/General-Election-2010-Ukip-challenge-cost-Tories-a-Commons-majority.html

“Analysis of results shows that in at least 21 key marginal seats, Ukip’s share of the vote proved enough to allow Labour or the Lib Dems to see off strong Tory challenges.”

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ironmaiden999 · 08/10/2014 10:51

Oh dear…………….do you ever give up?

Isitmebut · 08/10/2014 11:16

As the European countries are expected to remain in recession for at least another year, ever more EU citizens will economically migrate to our economic growth, and the EU will drift further to a protectionist superstate - the real question is WHY DID UKIP GIVE UP it's 20-year fight to bring us out?

Ukip KNOWS that Ukip votes ensures that a pro EU Labour government needing 31% of the vote to form the next government in 2015, means there will be no EU Referendum in 2017 - we will be stuck in the EU under Labour and the Lib Dems for 5-10 years more.

As far as I can see is that the Ukip 'change' in politics will be NO CHANGE in the EU and a BIG CHANGE in our economy under Labour, as the recovery dies, services no longer affordable under the weight of national debt fall, and taxes rise to maintain what's left - and for what?

Ukip have not just given up on their core policy/purpose, they are selling the UK and those who voted for them, out - for a few Westminster seats, how politically 'different' is that.

OP posts:
ironmaiden999 · 10/10/2014 10:52

Vote UKIP, get UKIP! As they did in Clacton, Labour only just managed to hold on in Heywood! Old labour supporters have realised for a long time that the Labour party could not care a toss about them, or their views, this has been a long time coming, and not before time!Grin

Isitmebut · 11/10/2014 01:02

FYI it was a by-election and if they predicted who would form the next government, the Lib Dems would have been the largest party in parliament for years.

After every Ukip success in European or local elections with even double digit shares of the votes, their vote in the General Election for the past 3 has fallen back to 2-3% - but lets assume that UKIP keeps, say 11% to 15% of their vote in 2015 or MORE - Labour will just need their core vote out to be the largest party in Westminster, with the Lib Dems left as their obvious ideological coalition party, if needed.

At the next General Election, NOTHING will galvanize the CORE Labour and Lib Dem votes that the PROSPECTS of a power mad further right wing than Conservatives racist party (UKIP) holding the country to 'social justice' policy hostage - and as Labour only need 31% of the vote to form that next government, they will win DESPITE Miliband, as the Labour voter lesser of two very different evils. IMO.

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ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 13/10/2014 21:00

I'd rather vote labour, get labour. Seems more straightforward.

CharethCutestory · 17/10/2014 12:14

Me too ThinkAboutIt Grin

Isitmebut · 17/10/2014 22:39

I thought thats the point of democracy folks, vote for who you want to 'wake up with the next morning', which may or may not be the geezer with stale ale and fags on his breath,

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Isitmebut · 28/10/2014 11:17

Are we getting to a ‘democratic’ point now, where support for UKIP will not only maintain the UK status quo on the EU/immigration issues, with no EU in/out debate followed by a Referendum – but also at a time when UK devolution will be firmly on the political agenda, the citizens/taxpayers of England will find that a 2015 Labour adminstarion heading up a socialist coalition and needing to pick up nationalist votes from both Scottish and Welsh, would not have our best interests at heart???

Due to dodgy electoral boundaries, the Conservatives need to be around 8% ahead of Labour in the polls/votes to get a similar number of parliamentary seats, and are current neck and neck on 30% according to one poll – with the main voting intension improvement being for UKIP. now up around 19%.

If UKIP on election day had anywhere near that, or even down to 8-11%, Labour will form the next government and with the other socialist/pro EU parties e.g. the Lib Dems, SNP, SDP, Plaid Cymru and probably the Greens – are likely to ENSURE via a Westminster parliamentary voting majority the UK stays in the EU – no doubt confident (deluded) that THEY will be better negotiators.

A Labour Party needing to keep such a UK socialist-ish coalition sweet on the EU and other voting matters, will have to make all sorts of policy compromises including expensive green energy when having heavily invested we need more reliable forms, which will not bode well for England, especially the taxpayers.

“The Barnett Formula Explained”
news.sky.com/story/1336911/the-barnett-formula-explained
“It's been used to distribute UK wealth across England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland for 35 years. Faisal Islam explains.”

“What is the Barnett formula?”

“It's a system of grants for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland that's based partly on which powers they have devolved to them, and partly on population.”

In conclusion: apart from no EU Referendum in the UK, just how expensive to England will the populist wish for UKIP MPs in Westminster will be, is anyones guess – for what upside, their intellect to best sort out the UK's problems???

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Sandy69 · 27/03/2015 23:31

Just going to vote UKIP anyway if they managed to stem immigration and then take us out of Europe we wouldn't need to be throwing so much money at NHS, schools, housing etc as there wouldn't be so many people in the UK.
That's a pretty basic view but that's what a lot of us think and friends in the US think the same about immigration and that's why they like Nigel Farage. He's straight talking and says what we want to hear. He's brilliant, educated and sincere.

BIWI · 27/03/2015 23:41

Just going to vote UKIP anyway if they managed to stem immigration and then take us out of Europe we wouldn't need to be throwing so much money at NHS, schools, housing etc as there wouldn't be so many people in the UK.

If they 'stem immigration', how will this reduce the number of people who are already here? Or do you imagine that this means that vast swathes of 'unacceptable' people will be magically disappeared?

How will this mean that we won't need to fund the NHS, schools and housing as we do now?

And in any case, why shouldn't we, as a civilised society, be funding the NHS, schools and housing? After all, one day, you might want to use them. Oh - actually - you probably do already! Let me guess. You're white, aren't you? You were born here. You probably think that it's your God-given right to use those services when you need them, and you expect your children to be educated ...

That's a pretty basic view but that's what a lot of us think

What do you mean by 'basic'? How is that different from 'stupid' or 'ignorant'? And who are the 'us'? I think you'll find that there are a lot more of 'us' who don't think such ignorant thoughts.

and friends in the US think the same about immigration

What on earth is it to do with 'friends' in the US?

and that's why they like Nigel Farage.

Who likes them? People in the US? What on earth difference does that make?!

He's straight talking and says what we want to hear. He's brilliant, educated and sincere.

Well, that's obviously your opinion. I'm not really sure I'd describe him as any of those things, although that's obviously your prerogative. Hmm

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