Can someone please explain why UK is trying to keep Scotland?

[Kellymum]

I am a bit confused. Scotland has been told from the start of the Referendum campaign that it cannot stand on its own two feet and will be worse off without the UK but surely then the rest of the UK will be BETTER OFF without Scotland?
I lived in London for 4 years and the general consensus was that Scotland was heavily subsidized by the rest of the UK. Again why? This does not seem fair to other parts of the UK. I keep hearing now from some people in England that Scotland should not get further preferential treatment. Why does Scotland get preferential treatment?
Again, if Scotland went independent, the "so called" money that has been used to subsidise them would then be redirected back to the rest of the UK. Why do they (Westminster) want to carry a dead horse?! Why oh why is Westminster so determined to keep Scotland that it has used its might through the media and corporations to not let Scotland go. It makes no sense to me. I work in business and the basic principle of business is to keep your assets and get rid of your liabilities!!! The pound should soar when Scotland is gone from the UK as a huge amount of debt would be gone? Why are the politicians sending every MP possible to woo them back? It is clear that Scotland must have something that Westminster wants. What do you think?

@RobG London GDP per capita is practically double that of Scotland - £56k Vs £30k GDP per capita(Edinburgh GDP per capita is 37k USD) When Edinburgh's GDP per capita is similar to that of London, then I agree you should leave. If you look at Singapore Vs Malaysia (a successful secession as Singapore is now one of the richest countries in the world despite having the same population and Scotland in 2021 and only having a million plus people in 1965), Singapore's GDP per capita was double that of Malaysia in 1965 when it separated (565 USD Vs 300 USD). Not just more but double.

If you want a successful independent Scotland, Edinburgh needs to be the richest place in the UK. Londoners need to be going to Edinburgh in search of jobs, not just for cheaper housing and a higher quality of life. That is not the case now. London and SE account for 36% of UK tax revenue now. Until Scotland becomes richer, there isn't a case of independence. Catalonia has a bigger case- it is richer than most regions of Spain and perfectly capable of supporting itself. Scotland is just not there yet; it may be in good time. I do support an independent Scotland even as a Londoner but it's not the right time.

@RobG the Scots weren't slaves were they. They were equal partners. Ireland was a colony and they decolonized. Now that there is brexit and problems posed to the good Friday agreement, I can see a rationale to them leaving. Of course they are much poorer than the south and would be a burden economically but if the south is fine with that, I can see rejoining to be a good solution for the brexit problems. Even though I don't support brexit, what is done is done, but I don't see a good solution for Northern Ireland if they remain part of the UK.

However Scotland is a different story. If you thought brexit was bad, untangling an economic union is nothing compared to Scottish independence which involves breaking apart 2 countries! It would be worth it if Scotland was a lot richer than London, and Scotland was truly being dragged down by the poorest country in western Europe (UK), but it isn't .

@onlychildhamster Heheheh! Ahhh the English! Always quick to 'lay down the law' lol! 😊

Well you just keep believing that if it makes you happy @onlchildhamster, but everyone in your country are going to miss the Scottish when they leave; the will take all their resources with them, despite concentrated attempts to 'steal' oil fields from them by England:
Without consultation of course 😉

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1126/contents/made

@onlychildhamster Without Scottish oil revenue, stolen for over forty years, England will struggle to make its balance of payments:

Its Scotland that pays Englands bills. They have done so for 45 years.

@onlychildhamster London is NOT the money powerhouse you think it is. Its completely reliant on the money it takes from Scotland. The overheads for running the place a ENORMOUS London is the most heavily subsidised part of the United Kingdom. 😊

@onlychildhamster The Scottish are SUPPOSED to be Partners, but they have never been.

Brexit alone is proof of that. 😊

One thing that rarely comes up is how precarious energy security is in England. If I lived in England I’d be very concerned. Scotland is almost completely secure through renewables and this is something that’s constantly improving. England frequently relies on Scotland for up to 25% of our excess electricity.

The national grid is also set in favour of the south of England. The parts of Scotland that produce the highest amounts of energy have higher tariffs. Once Scotland is independent it’ll be interesting to see how this all pans out. Selling our renewable energy and making UK/USA pay rent for trident will generate Billions in revenue.

And on the days when it’s calm and the wind isn’t generating enough power? Where does our power supply come from?
We can’t rely on oil going forward because of climate change and partnership with the greens.
If we walk away from the uk we have to take our share of the debt. How will that be paid back? We don’t just get to leave without paying anything. The debt from the furlow scheme alone is huge and Scottish citizens have benefited greatly from it. We don’t just get to walk away.
I know what the response will be- Scotland has no debt. If you think that, you are seriously deluded.
As I said before, if there’s ever a yes vote we will leave, along with many others I’m sure, most of whom will be higher tax payers. Also just watch the exodus of big business. It will be interesting to see how the books balance then.
Who will organise our military? who will protect our coastal waters? We have no equivalent of MI5/MI6 so who will take care of that? We have a crappy little parliament making crappy decisions on domestic policies. The idea that we have the wherewithal to organise defence on an international scale is laughable.

@RobG www.google.com/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/checked-out/84933/does-london-really-subsidise-the-uk%3famp

I look at facts

The data report published yesterday is a simple view of tax receipts versus government spending that gives the surplus or deficit figures for each part of the UK.

It shows that only three parts of the country generated a surplus of any size last year: London, the wider south-east and the east of England.

The capital was the biggest contributor, with a surplus of £3,070 per head. Spending is high in London, due to factors such as high rents boosting the housing benefit bill, but tax revenues are huge at £15,756 per head.

"The south-east and the east of England also raised more in taxes than they received in spending in 2015-16 – by £1,667 and £242 per person respectively," adds the FT.

Why is this important?
Aside from the implications for Brexit negotiations for the City of London, there are also important questions for the devolved administrations – and for Scottish independence in particular.

The largest deficit was recorded in Northern Ireland, of £5,437, followed by Wales, which also recorded the lowest tax-take per person, with a shortfall of around £4,500.

"The deficit per head in Scotland was £2,824 last year," says Nils Pratley in The Guardian.

"To reduce that figure as a standalone nation, taxes would have to rise or spending would have to fall, other factors being equal."

It doesn't matter as much that NI has a deficit cos they can rely on the south (which is richer than the UK) to boost it. But if Scotland wants to go independent, it needs to at least have a surplus or to sacrifice a lot in the short term for nation building. Give up free healthcare and university, increase taxes for the general population but lower them for corporations to attract foreign investment, introduce conscription. These are the hard choices that will be inevitable and which the electorate are not being told about.

United Kingdom of England and Wales sounds pathetic tbh.

With the renewed interest in independence in Wales, hopefully with Scotland becoming free of the English yoke and Ireland soon to follow hopefully it might help boost the YesCymru movement, I'll look forward to a union of the Celtic British Nations

@onlychildhamster 😁 I look at facts too.

I have been reading about this subject since 2002, some 19 years now.

You are mistaken (at best)

The Facts are that England and the Uk were saved from Bankruptcy in the 1970s due to Scotland becoming the wealthiest country in Europe, due to their massive oil wealth, which successive British Governments lied about in order ton steal all of it.

They stole all of it.

They are still stealing it today, and they are 'worried stiff' about Scotland leaving, because they will take their money and resources with them. A direct quote from former British Chancellor Lord Dennis Healy. Here:

www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/2013/may/29/scottish-independence-oil-healey

And of course another British Chancellor, and Lord said in your House of Commons, (source: Hansard) Allistair Lord Darling:

So they have actually admitted this in Englands Parliament. Openly and publicly and recorded in Hansard. Not one but TWO British Chancellors.

There are all the facts you need. 😊

@JustAnotherPoster00 -yes I will too 😊

@RobG and what happens when the oil price drops? That's the thing- unless you are the middle East and tbh they are on shaky ground, relying on oil to fund independence is very unstable.

@RobG you haven't given me any figures, all you have given me is some opinions dating back to 2013. I have given you recent figures on Scotland's deficit per head relative to other regions in the UK.

@onlychildhamster 😁 lol!

I dont need to give you anything. The 'opinions' (and you are funny!) are from Englands Chancellors, -two of them.

But you do sound like someone who does like to sing 'Rule Britannia' all day long. lol!😜

I do hope the Scottish Escape. England is a county without sufficient resources, escalating debt and fewer and fewer friends now, but.... it is what they voted for.

@onlychildhamster

Classic SNP supporter- blinkers on and refuse to discuss the facts put before you- just resort to throwing low level insults around in the hope it’ll deflect the discussion. 😂

@Knownbyanothername 🤣🤣🤣 No, I am not an SNP person, and no there are absolutley nbo insults in my postings.
The SNP do not have a Party in my country. But how will I respond to your remark? 😜

'Quite a Typical British Nationalist; avoids dealing with reality even when presented with facts from their own country's Chancellor' 😉

Anyone reading this will see this of course lol!

@Knownbyanothername hey, perhaps I can sell you a bag of magic beans I have? 😜 Only €100, 000 😅😉

@RobG actually I am a citizen of a commonwealth nation (am pretty settled here as I have lived in London for 8 years, British DH, own my flat etc). So I know what a country under the yoke of colonial oppression looks like and Scotland ain't it. When we were granted self government, the British government refused to even give the first chief minister an office, his first office was under a tree. Our unemployment rate was 40% post world war two. We didn't have proper housing either, most lived in slums or high density housing above shops. Hence why the people wanted independence and self determination and 56 years on, I think it was a good decision.

Scotland really isn't in the same equation.

@RobG on the other hand, my country Singapore was a success story as one of the richest countries in the world. No one ever thinks, we were better off under the British. Our neighbors in Malaysia, there are people who said the British government might have been preferable to their current corrupt government! SNP is probably not as bad as that, but being an independent country isn't easy.

@onlychildhamster Ahhhhh if only I could believe you lol! 😜

Better luck next time?

Oh and can I interest you in a bag of magic beans perhaps?

Only €100, 000 😉 I have to work now, so have a nice afternoon, I wish you well. lol!

@RobG the quality of your arguments virtually amounts to an argument for unionism!

If Scotland does become independent, hopefully it will be as a thoughtful, outward looking country, and not one that feeds on division, anti-Englishness, anti-intellectualism and a deluded historical revisionism.

And if Scotland does separate, then England will forever be her closest neighbour: culturally, socially, geographically and linguistically. There’s no call for a Braveheart act.

@Libelula21 Oh... have you been drinking today? It is a little bit early is it not? 😜 lol! You're funny!

@Libelula21 I dont know what this 'Braveheart Act' is that you speak of (you sound angry and Partonising. I suspect it must be an English matter? 😜 )

One thing is certain, when Scotland rejoins the Eu, -righting a wrong that england played against them, there will be a 'hard border' (hope thats the correct term) between Scotland, and whatever exists of the Uk once they leave.