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Politics

Who should I vote for? My views seem to be all over the place.

80 replies

tobybox · 09/04/2014 12:38

None of the parties seem to represent anything near where my political views lie.

Could someone who is more clued up than me help me out?

My main views are:

  • NMW should rise dramatically, to a 'living wage', and the low threshold for tax should rise too. Tax hike for higher incomes and a slight raise for middle incomes (that would be me!) but with full tax visibility (so we can see where our taxes are being paid).
  • A much stricter cap on university places, but with the funding money saved on university expenditure, transfer this to apprenticeship/technical training schemes instead.
  • I am against free schools. I think they cause divisions within local communities in terms of religion/ethnicity discrimination etc. I am however in favour of academically selective grammar schools and independent schools. I would like to see the return of the Assisted Places Scheme.
  • I am in favour of HS2 and generally in favour of increased infrastructure & transport links, and wind power. I support First Buy schemes etc. but (and I don't know much about this) would support schemes to limit people buying up properties and then not living in them, to sell them at a profit later.
OP posts:
Impatientismymiddlename · 09/04/2014 15:23

The bedroom tax is my other bugbear that really makes me question this govt. I do think the general principle of the bedroom tax is good in theory as we need to free up bigger properties for families, however, there are too many people being financially penalised because their local authority cannot find them a smaller property to move into. If somebody wants to move somewhere smaller and has put in a request to move but the council cannot find them anywhere smaller then they shouldn't have their housing benefit reduced (unless a smaller property is found and they refuse to move into it).

unlucky83 · 09/04/2014 16:21

NMW wage increase during the boom years can't be compared to the increase brought about by this government during a recession when most people (above NMW) have had pay freezes.
Also the introduction of the automatic enrolment for pensions affects how much pay can go up - employers have needed to plan for that ...

Haven't looked at it for a while (effects where I work, I do finances and budgets but keeps being delayed for small businesses)
IIRC eventually it will be 5% employees and 3% employer will have to contribute. That means that effectively employers will have given their employees a 3% increase, even though the employee won't see it in their pay packet just their pension.
But I would say is long term a good thing - if the NEST scheme which most small employers will sign up to is actually competitive. (problem with Stakeholder pensions most employees in poorly paid jobs didn't sign up, small employers just signed up to one that would cost them the least but might not be best for the employees)

Income tax personal allowance increase is a good thing. In 2009 you paid tax on anything more than £6035pa - now it is £10k . All the employees I do the wages for - all part time, term time workers are now out of the tax bracket (except one who uses all their allowance from other income).

Still have issues with NI (especially not being cumulative) but then a lot of these employees do make the lower limit without having to pay anything so are building up credits. And the £2k pa employer NI allowance just introduced is good for where I work, as we paid less than that and now won't have to pay anything. Gives us a little bit more in the 'staff cost' pot, so we can afford to pay the staff a wee bit more.

I like the idea of a living wage - unfortunately if we paid the staff a 'living wage' they just wouldn't have a job any more - our finances are that tight (charity). I would say that over the last two years our situation has slightly improved and also we don't seem to be having any problems getting grants etc. Things are looking up for us - 3-4yr ago I was thinking it was just a matter of how long we could keep going before we went under. But the staff have reduced their hours, had a pay freeze until last year etc - without them doing their bit we would be finished now.

I agree that the bedroom tax is unfair if people are trapped.
And I think private landlords for social housing is a mistake. I watched a 'Homes under the hammer' a few years ago. Someone bought a property and did it up to rent out. When the estate agents did their valuation, I can't remember the exact figures but say they said she could get £400pm rent - she already had a deal with the council getting £500 pm -and the presenter congratulated her on it Angry!

Maybe councils should be buying houses like these for social housing.

I'm equally lost who to vote for ...think maybe we should start our own party.

Impatientismymiddlename · 09/04/2014 16:53

^Haven't looked at it for a while (effects where I work, I do finances and budgets but keeps being delayed for small businesses)
IIRC eventually it will be 5% employees and 3% employer will have to contribute. That means that effectively employers will have given their employees a 3% increase, even though the employee won't see it in their pay packet just their pension.^

How many people on NMW are going to opt out of the new work place pension? I would imagine that quite a lot will opt out seeing as they are struggling to pay bills and put food on the table. Do you think that someone currently on NMW can afford to save 5% of their income?
It's all very well bringing in new schemes to encourage people to save for a pension, but currently people who haven't saved get pension credit and therefore some of those that have saved are not much better off than those who didn't save. I'm not sure how the new flat rate pension proposals will change the current unfair system, but based on the current system I would opt out of the workplace pension so I wouldn't be getting a 3% rise (as I suspect many others won't either).

Impatientismymiddlename · 09/04/2014 17:00

I like the idea of a living wage - unfortunately if we paid the staff a 'living wage' they just wouldn't have a job any more - our finances are that tight (charity).

I agree with that. A lot of small businesses would go under if the living wage became the minimum wage or if the minimum wage rose significantly. I also think that lots of employers would employ younger staff to benefit from the lower rate minimum wage.
I think that the minimum wage should be the same rate for everybody. I also think that VAT should be lowered. I think that there should be more govt financial help for low paid workers, rather than continually pushing up NMW or small businesses should get more help when NMW goes up. The help with childcare should go back to being 80%. There are things that can be done to help low paid workers without putting small businesses under increasing pressure.

unlucky83 · 09/04/2014 17:50

impatient the thing is that people do have to opt out - rather than in. And afaik have to opt out every year. And employers aren't allowed to encourage opting out...
And the increase is going to be gradual - so won't be a big hit - one of my issues was larger companies have started (think last April) and the contributions start at about 1.5% with about 4 years for it to get up to the combined 8%. Smaller businesses had a delayed start but had to get to the 8% within the same time frame....

Not sure what is happening now...we haven't got a start date yet. And for smaller businesses the NI allowance will help with that!

Impatientismymiddlename · 09/04/2014 19:35

But people will opt out, most people are not so thick that they won't realise that they can opt out. People who are already struggling financially will opt out.
Lots of women who are pensioners already are not financially better off for having saved into a pension. People will look at that and decide that there is no point going without food now in order to be no better off in retirement.

ttosca · 09/04/2014 19:49

impatient-

I agree with that. A lot of small businesses would go under if the living wage became the minimum wage or if the minimum wage rose significantly. I also think that lots of employers would employ younger staff to benefit from the lower rate minimum wage.
I think that the minimum wage should be the same rate for everybody.

The solution to this is to make a living wage mandatory for all large businesses, defined as employing over X employees. This would facilitate small business growth, but ensure that big businesses, who can afford to pay higher wages, do so.

I also think that VAT should be lowered.

I agree with this. VAT is a very regressive tax, and it hurts the poorest the most.

I think that there should be more govt financial help for low paid workers, rather than continually pushing up NMW or small businesses should get more help when NMW goes up. The help with childcare should go back to being 80%. There are things that can be done to help low paid workers without putting small businesses under increasing pressure.

I know you have the best intention, but that's similar to the situation we have now. The government already massively subsidizes businesses because they refuse to pay workers a decent wage. In fact, the majority of benefits are claimed by people who are in work. The problem is work doesn't pay - at least, not nearly enough. Not enough to keep up with the cost of living. Not enough to bring up a family.

We need to make sure that businesses pay their fair share.

StarGazeyPond · 09/04/2014 20:02

I am in favour of no cap on immigration providing they have a job in the UK before emigrating.

Immigrate is coming in...........emigrate is going out (just so you know in future tobybox).

unlucky83 · 09/04/2014 20:06

I don't know - guess more information now but when I first looked into it (from employers POV) it took me a while to find out there was an option to opt out !

Agree about pensions though - my mum paid into one for years when she worked first PT, then when we were older FT. She is now precisely £5 pw better off for doing it Shock but maybe when we are old we might really need it ...
I'm skeptical about saving for old age etc all together .. my great aunt (no DCs) worked and lived frugally all her life. She had been doing okish and then had a fall - social services (? - I think - whatever agency responsible) had her in a home super quick - because she could pay and it was cheaper for the council for her to be there (if she couldn't, they would have struggled to find a place and they would have been less keen - it would be the expensive option)...
She would have been better with support at home - or in sheltered accommodation. (She was fiercely independent and private - a month or so before she'd been up a ladder cleaning the gutters - she did lose a lot of her spirit and mentally declined rapidly)
She was there for years and years, then a care home, cost thousands and thousands of pounds - meanwhile someone sitting next to her who had been more extravagant in their life got the same level of care but funded by the tax payer...I know you can't take it with you - but it does seem unfair.

tobybox · 09/04/2014 20:13

StarGazeyPond I know, I meant that they would be emigrating out of their home country into the UK. Apologies if that was ambiguous.

I did that excellent policy test and agreed with the Green party the most...followed by Labour. Which probably means I should vote Labour, even though I swore not to as soon as they abolished the Assisted Places scheme, supported the free school movement & tried to get everyone and his dog into university...

OP posts:
claig · 09/04/2014 20:50

The trouble with these policy tests is that they don't weight which policies you think are important. You might want more windfarms, but how much more than voting out a party that wanted to introduce biometric ID cards and DNA databases? You might want a law to ban smoking in cars carrying children, but how much more than wanting a party that will increase the tax threshold and take low-paid people out of taxation or a party that will allow pensioners to draw out their pensions rather than forcing them to buy annuities or a party that scrapped the Liverpool Care Pathway?

It is really the big picture and the big things that count and you need to weigh up what is most important to you and choose the party that matches those criteria rather than the party which promises to introduce more ASBOs etc

unlucky83 · 09/04/2014 22:15

Oh dear - I've done the test and and I am almost smack bang in the middle! Did notice that there wasn't much difference between David Cameron and Ed Milliband - and that there is no party that sits where I am!!! Maybe why I have no idea who to vote for ...
I agree some of the questions I was a bit Hmm about ...didn't really agree or disagree - more of 'well it depends'...

HeeHiles · 09/04/2014 22:26

When I did the 'who should I vote for' test I came out 100% Green Wink the political compass had me more left wing libertarian than the Dalai Lama!!! Call me Mother Theresa Grin

5feralloinfruits · 10/04/2014 01:26

I was also further left than Ghandi on that chart!

I wont vote for any of them,im an anarchist!

lessonsintightropes · 10/04/2014 01:34

Apparently I'm a leftist libertarian

Still considering voting UKIP though...

Contrarian78 · 10/04/2014 12:44

In reposne to the Pension Credit point made upthread: I think the whole idea of the single-rate pension was to encourage people into additional saving. I agree, there would be little possibility of getting people to save (especially on lower wages) if any benefit was means tested.

AlpacaYourThings · 10/04/2014 13:56

Apparently I'm a Social Libertarian/Authoritarian what does that even mean?!

Funny, I thought I was conservative Confused

Who do I vote for?! someone please tell me

AlpacaYourThings · 10/04/2014 13:59

No, I've read it wrong. I'm a left libertarian.

I still don't know what it means...

Impatientismymiddlename · 10/04/2014 14:41

Left libertarian is a mix of approaches which combines individual freedom and social justice with ideas that we shouldnt have hierarchies or beuracracy. If you are left libertarian then UKIP is probably not for you.

AlpacaYourThings · 10/04/2014 14:47

Would Lib Dem be a good match, Impatient?

Impatientismymiddlename · 10/04/2014 14:58

I suppose traditionally it would be lib dem, but I'm not convinced that they are left enough or liberal enough to fit the role now, so I'm not sure which party it would be. I'm certain it wouldn't be UKIP though.

AlpacaYourThings · 10/04/2014 15:08

Oh no, I couldn't imagine voting for UKIP!

Interesting, I agree I don't think Lib Dem are liberal enough.

I was watching a TV programme the other day and they were talking about a People's Party made up of Head Teachers, Lawyers, Social Workers etc and I love that idea.

I just don't feel that any of the major political parties match my views.

Impatientismymiddlename · 10/04/2014 15:12

Oh sorry, I had mixed you up with someone else talking about leftist libertarian who said they were considering voting for UKIP.

I'm the same in that there isn't a party that really represents the majority of my views. There are parties which don't represent any of my views at all so I can pretty much rule them out and concentrate on the remainders.

AlpacaYourThings · 10/04/2014 15:28

Oh right! Smile No, UKIP would not get my vote.

I think my main choices are Labour and Lib Dem. I'm just annoyed that there isn't a party that truest represents the left. [grumpy]

AlpacaYourThings · 10/04/2014 15:29

*truly