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Original poster

The Labour Party....really?

66 replies

BechuanaGirl · 27/12/2013 16:29

I moved to Britain from Botswana when I was 16 back in 2005 for educational purposes. In all the time I've been here, I still fail to understand some of the....call it 'opinions' of the British, including the outward support for the Labour Party and democratic socialism. I don't want to have a political argument, merely an education as to why people support the Labour Party. Because looking at the facts, every time Labour has been in power for an extended period of time (two terms plus), the economy has collapsed. And the Labour administrations have in my mind introduced no progressive legislation (except for homosexuality, which was proposed by a Conservative MP, abortion and the minimum wage). They seem to be a total write off, even for socialists. And now they are being downtrodden and proven wrong by Conservative market reforms (Ed Balls said it wouldn't work, and it has Shock) So could Labour supporters illustrate to me why they support the party, because I'm totally lost as to why. Apologies if my spelling is poor! Wink

OP posts:
giggly · 28/12/2013 05:51

You do know that there are more Panda's in Scotland than Tory MP's. What does that tell you about history op?

Ohfuckeryitsmarzipan · 28/12/2013 08:36

Oh but "people" say it doesn't work.Then it's true then.

DoctorTwoTurtleDoves · 28/12/2013 08:44

Re the nationalised vs privatised industries just look at rail. The train operator requiring the lowest subsidy is the East Coast Line, currently run by...the government.

Look at how many foreign governments which now have major stakes in our utilities. They belonged to us until neocontards stole them from us and gave them away to asset strippers and made them worse.

We now have a debt based economy, unlike after WW2 when we actually made stuff and the gap between rich and poor narrowed. Yes, I know, strikes etc, but how else but through withdrawal of labour are those with the least supposed to exert influence? This government of kleptocrats is stealing from those least able to fight back, and we will all suffer long term.

Tiredemma · 28/12/2013 08:49

TheGreatHunt The NHS? really that's your demonstration of Labour's progressiveness? The system frequently considered the worst in Europe? I've found a few policies actually worth talking about that labour introduced, and the NHS isn't one of them

Are you actually being serious? Or just trying to cause a ridiculous, pointless argument?

diva100 · 28/12/2013 09:04

Everything custard said, you couldn't have put it better.

Tiredemma · 28/12/2013 09:12

AND PLEASE-

do not forget that at the last General Election they w not voted in by the electorate- they required propping up by the Liberal Democrats (something im sure the Lib Dems will go on to regret as they will be fucked over by their previous electorate at the next GE)

They are NOT a Govt voted in by the 'Majority' vote in GB. Remember that when you spout off about how great they are.

They are bastards. Tory swine bastards.

TheGreatHunt · 28/12/2013 09:26

Oh yes Tiredemma, thank you for reminding me! The Tories couldn't even win despite the "mess" that we'd been left in.

Tiredemma · 28/12/2013 09:33

Most recent YouGov poll put labour with 6% lead over Conservatives- so if we had to vote tomorrow- it looks like the Labour party would 'win'.

Which I think says a lot about how people view the Tories 'austerity' tactics.

Oakmaiden · 28/12/2013 09:45

Tiredemma - interesting that there are twice as many DM/Express readers taking part in that survey as readers of any other paper - which tells us something about the ideologies of those people before they answer any questions...

antimatter · 28/12/2013 09:56

I just wanted to point out how many more 18-24 yo voters chose Labour.
With introduction of university fees many young voters hate Libdems and Tories. That would hunt them for many years.

roadwalker · 28/12/2013 09:58

BechuanaGirl
I don't give too hoots about persuading you to support any political party
In true DM reader fashion I do not believe anything would persuade you

ParsingFancy · 28/12/2013 10:40

Is this some kind of wind-up?

Botswana was founded on semi-socialist principals.

Debswana, the primary source of Botswana's wealth, is a joint venture between De Beers and the Botswana govt.

The country's other major mineral source, the copper-nickel mine at Selebi Phikwe, is owned by Bamangwato Concessions Ltd, which is wholly owned by the government. The mine has been kept in production at a loss during various dips in the copper price, because of its long term importance to local employment and to the economy.

And because of the paucity of other industries, government employment is a huge portion of the economy. That good old socialist principal of providing universal, good quality, state education has been a government priority for decades - the country's gone from a standing start in 1966 to 83% adult literacy in 2008. I notice they introduced school fees in 2006 - so the OP will have grown up under free education.

As for dissing the NHS? Ahahahaha! I'm not claiming it's perfect but seriously, compared to Botswana? You're 'aving a laugh.

The public health system in Botswana is admirable in the circumstances but light years from the NHS. Actually private health care was, too, 20 years ago (don't know about now). People used to travel to South Africa for anything complicated like, you know, mammograms, because private facilities in Botswana just couldn't provide.

ParsingFancy · 28/12/2013 10:45

(Should have said, Debswana runs all the diamond mines in Botswana. The OP of course already knows that.)

AfricanExport · 28/12/2013 11:04

Well this has turned into exactly what Bechuana girl expected , I am sure, very few examples of why people support labour but rather reasons why they don't support Tory. Not supporting the Tories is not a reason to vote Labour. the question was why vote labour not why not vote tory.

A very relevant question as labour are idiots, who pander to the masses to get their votes so they can nanny them. labour who claim to be liberal but are eroding all our freedoms for the sake a being liberal Hmm . Why not vote independent, or green, or ukip, or anything else..... really. Why labour?

Personally I think we should all vote for an independent candidate in the next election, it doesn't even Matter if you like them, just make a stand that the current options are crap and we don't want any of these idiots in charge.

Original poster
BechuanaGirl · 28/12/2013 12:17

ParsingFancy, I'm glad you've done some research Wink

I wasn't comparing Botswana's healthcare with the NHS, though. Botswana's healthcare is too far stretched with the AIDS epidemic anyway, not even counting the fact the country is poorer than Britain.

AfricanExport, thank you!

OP posts:
ParsingFancy · 28/12/2013 12:18

Er, actually I already knew all of that except the recent literacy figures and that tuition fees had been introduced.

ParsingFancy · 28/12/2013 12:27

So, BG, would you like to comment further on your statement that:
"The fact the state owns no industry is a good thing, governments have no responsibility running business, businesses do."

Given Botswana holds its position as one of the richest per capita nations in Africa precisely because of state-owned or controlled industries?

ParsingFancy · 28/12/2013 12:30

BTW, I don't have a sweeping position on this either way, but you have. So I'd like to see how you reconcile the facts.

ParsingFancy · 28/12/2013 12:47

And while you're at it, you can comment on your assertions about the NHS. Since you've now been given data contradicting them.

CustardoPaidforIDSsYFronts · 28/12/2013 12:54

:)

JaquelineHyde · 28/12/2013 12:56

Custard said everything I wanted to, so I won't repeat it.

I see the OP is avoiding commenting on any of the points raised so far, what a surprise.

TheGreatHunt · 28/12/2013 13:18

as labour are idiots, who pander to the masses to get their votes so they can nanny them

What a silly statement. Evidence please?

People vote labour because, in their minds, there's no point voting for independents etc to make a point - they don't want to risk the Tories getting in. They vote labour because of the history of the party, representing the working man. They vote labour because that's what their families have done historically - political parties are not known for reaching all parts of society - it is hard to find out about parties if you're not inclined to use the Internet and are intimidated by reading party manifestos.

CustardoPaidforIDSsYFronts · 28/12/2013 13:44

indeed greathunt so right. I absolutely know how to search and what to search for but finding out about the candidates beyond who was standing at the last election was really difficult i can tell you - and i am inclined to do my research - becuase voting labour in the area where i live can be seen as a wasted vote, so i want to make the most of the power that i have, the vote that so many people have fought and died for so that i can have it.

the lack of information is poor

same with the police commissioner bollocks - there was bollocks all information available beyond who was standing and a brief bio on the website

i do not praise America for much, but what they have right is this undeniable belief in their power as individuals to vote people into office

and the officials work for it, not like our lot - on both sides lazy entitled bastards.

It is daunting when you go and vote for the first time, and many people believe that if they register to vote, that the people who are looking for them for money that they owe will be able to find them, thats why they dont register.

and now there are proposals regarding ID which will disenfranchise the poor even further.

grimbletart · 29/12/2013 19:48

OP asked why people vote Labour, not why people vote Tory.

OP I think it is partly because of its name - Labour. So they think Labour - they're for the workers aren't they? Er no, they aren't. Like most politicians of all persuasions they are in it because they think they know best how to run other people's lives.

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