Can someone explain to me in simple terms. USA elections

[ihatethecold]

What are the main differences between Obama and romney?
Is Obama like labour and Romney like very right conservative?

Why does Romney say he will get rid of the healthcare bill that Obama brought in.

Did it not work?
why wouldn't you want people without insurance to access healthcare ?
Thanks

ow, ow, ow

they do in the UK

Sorry, I only know about England! (only lived in London) Is it the same in all the UK? I thought the Scottish system was totally different.

I'm just going to drop this here. So very, very funny, and exactly how I feel about the current campaign.

I'm originally from the US. I've not posted in this thread because I have just SO much to say on this topic (was raised in Washington DC so politics is like a local sport to us!) but I think I'd bore the arse off anyone with it all. The Jon Stewart link covers a lot of the current issues I have, though! Get past the bit with Clint yelling at the chair; he doesn't actually stay on that issue for too long.

"I do no believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that makes you pro life. In fact, I think in many cases your morality is lacking if all you want is a child born, not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed.

And why would I think you don't?

Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro life, that's pro birth.

We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro life is"

Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun.

I agree with every word of that, and it's very rare that I agree with a theist's viewpoint. Also, remember that these people who claim to be pro life are those who back the death penalty, which is hardly pro life.

Oh yay, another DC person on the thread!

DC is hilarious. I'm pretty sure it's the only city where people go out to bars in droves to watch the State of the Union speech.

It's also 90% registered Democrat. The Bush years were HELL.

what are green eggs?

to dreaming :) It is a unique city, yes. Was born and raised there, and my friends there pop to my mind every time I hear "ALL Americans think xyz" etc. No, actually they don't. ALL of my friends own passports, travel, and have opinions which they've based on those travels and their various life experiences. I realise this is a different stereotype but it is a very real one for that city. And dear bob don't get me started on what Republicans think are "real Americans."

And in case any UK folks think I'm just commenting on UK opinions: I actually hear that generalisation more from Americans abroad, about other Americans, especially if they're from a particularly conservative part of the country.

Piglet I don't know, but if some frightening little man chased me around with a plate of them for a day, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't eat them just to shut him up. (It's from a book- the "nichts" bit was my son chiming in; his dad is German and he likes to mix things up a bit)

I do have a genuine question: What does 'Pro-America' mean? Surely if you live in America, pay taxes etc you are 'Pro American' otherwise you'd be living elsewhere?

It's not a snarky question, I've just never heard anyone here say 'oh, you agree with more immigration? You're not Pro-Australian!' Same with England.

Many thanks if an American can explain what this (actually) means as opposed to the obvious implication. :)

Pro-American is another right-wing catchphrase. The implication being that if you don't agree with them, you are not just anti-conservative, you are anti-AMERICA.

I'm not sure I can explain it because I personally think it's really stupid.

But I sense that the thinking is kind of like this: America is the greatest country ever. Conservatives want to keep America great and to make it even better by undoing all that commie stuff that lefties have put in place. So if you are against conservatives, you are against America, because the only thing the conservatives are doing is trying to keep America great.

This got even more amplified after 9/11, as you can imagine.

That's what I suspected, but I thought it may have a deeper meaning than 'you agree with immigration laws and 'anchor babies?' hate that term! Well you're not a REAL American!!

Saying someone isn't a 'real' American is racist in itself IMO. Obviously the same applies to all other countries but I cringe at terms like 'All American Boy' etc.

I will be restrained with my answer because I admit, my natural tendency is to rant about Republicans.

I think "real" American means different things to different people. Usually if they are the sort of person to be trotting out that term, they are conservative-leaning. I don't think all of those people realise how um.. extreme the term sounds to other people. Some use it relatively innocently, some of them use it in a disgustingly extremist (anti-immigration) way. The most recent use of it is anti-liberal, basically. "Real" Americans agree with Republican policies (pro gun, pro religion). Sarah Palin was big on using this term. Democrats have tried to use it in response to them, but they try not to use it often.

"Pro-American".. is even more nationalistic.

"All-American Boy" I actually don't take too negatively, because I (personally) don't associate racial background with it. I think I've only heard it with regard to middle class, clean-cut kids on the football team, black, hispanic or whatever doesn't matter as much as class. Open to interpretation again, though, as I'm sure to someone else it only means a blonde boy or whatever.

Yes, to my ears 'real American' has serious racist/xenophobic tones.

I'm not sure the sentiment is completely absent in the UK. You hear right-wing people there talking about how awful multiculturalism is and we need to return to good old-fashioned English values and so on. Certainly some people have ideas about what is British and 'un-British'. It may not be to the same extreme as in the US, but then the US is a much more flagrantly patriotic/nationalistic country generally.

The one I find odd if the fact that to criticise the President is unpatriotic.

You can slag off parties and politics and politicians, but not the president... admittedly its not quite been the same with Obama, but I've had amusing conversations with liberal Democrat supporting Americans who HATED Bush's policies and yet wouldn't criticise him in any way near the same way Brits would maul our PM whilst he was in office.

Calling Obama unpatriotic is the Wingnut nod to being politically correct. What they really mean by 'unpatriotic' is 'black'.

Have a look to see if a centrist Republican, say McCain, has ever called Obama unpatriotic. (He hasn't.) In fact, McCain recently defended Hillary Clinton's aide, Huma Abedin, from the Senate floor. Michelle Bachmann (heaven defend us from her) claimed Huma's family were terrorists and that she was 'unpatriotic'. This time it meant 'Muslim'.

The Wingnuts use 'real America/n' in the same way as 'unpatriotic'. But that's not necessarily what Romney means by it. Usually that's just appealing to the People, ie, not the political class running Washington. Both parties use 'real America' in much the same way (our voters, not theirs, and not those bastards in DC ).

what is a Wingnut?

is it usual for right-wingers to be bombastic and intolerant?

Right wing nut. Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, considerable numbers of Fox News commentators, et al. As distinct from someone who is right-wing, or conservative, such as Romney.

I must admit whenever I hear 'my son is an All American Boy!' It usually means he's white, enjoys the 'appropriate' toys and activities for a young boy and has certain views already developing...It makes me cringe. At least that's the way it's been portrayed in Australia. Again, to me it's just a weird term. Never heard 'All Australian Boy!' 'All English Boy!' 'All Irish Boy!' Well, etc etc. Not necessarily just race, it applies to gender stereotypes as well as political beliefs in a child. At least IME.

'Pro-American' makes me cringe because it's not the same as 'Pro-women/etc'

It almost sounds like a threat to American voters who disagree with whatever politician said it. An American is an American is an American. I just can't understand it if it's not a threat, eg 'you agree with xzy? That goes against the Founding Fathers! You're not a REAAAAAAAAAAAAAL American!' Not race related there but still sounds extremely insulting and threatening to me.

FYI: I'd be disgusted with any Aussie politician (including my brother) who used 'Pro-Australia' as an argument.

Math WRT "formative sexual experience" You are seeing this from a safeguarding/child protection perspective? We were talking about teens in high school, so I meant the "normal" i.e. not abusive or pathological sexual behaviour between teenagers, or pupils discussing their relationships, being pregnant or suspecting that is the case, and similarly personal issues. If you're thinking of the young child who blabs out something sexual or asks an age-inappropriate question which implies something's the matter at home, then that is a completely different situation. Of course parents may not be told in line with child protection procedures in this case.

"incredibly prurient" So a Muslim, conservative Catholic, Sikh or Mormon whose son/daughter tells a teacher they are having sex at 15 is prurient for wanting to actually be informed of this, which they see as a major moral issue in keeping with their beliefs? Prurience is reading trashy sex obsessed pulp fiction or minor celebrities' shenanigans in the tabloid newspapers, or so I thought? Wanting to know whether your own child is following the faith and morals you have brought them up with, and not have a professional you have entrusted them to keep secrets for them, fits in that category now? Really?

I am not "fazed" by Marcotte or those with her views on religion and/or sexuality, I am offended and annoyed by them and don't want those views inflicted on children.

"Do you honestly think there is a piece of legislation that could stop children speaking to a trusted teacher, or stop teachers listening and talking to them?" - No, as it would be unenforceable, but in lieu of statutory intervention schools could issue individual guidance that the teachers are not there to be a confidante for the concupiscent youth, particularly when parents don't share those "metropolitan elite liberal" moral standards. I know of one place in this country where 90% of pupils are from Muslim/Hindu/ Charismatic Black church/SDA or other traditionalist families but the deputy principal provides secret support to them on intimate sexual matters and has produced a sex ed policy which doesn't mention marriage, purity, abstinence, or similar concepts ONCE. I said this was an anti-family imposition of a sophisticated white liberal Christian elite woman's morals on children and teens from several tightly knit conservative communities. Surely you can't defend her?

Ian Paisley- I'm not a Catholic-hating gay-bashing five point Calvinist ultrafundie bigot. Don't balk at me calling a group that you happen to like extreme liberal (not even you personally) and then imply I am far-far-far right when I have disavowed that sort of wingnuttery several times in the thread. Did you miss the post that said I'd support a Democrat who was anti-abortion but had moderate positions on other things? Or the one where I attacked Limbaugh and Sean Hannity for their extremist nonsense? The support for the Affordable Care Act? The one where I said "evolution denial" as if evolution might actually be true? And that one about my very in-between position on economics?

I have made it clear I'm not an extremist. @dreamingbohemian- the two coasts and New England, the deep-blue states are much closer to mainstream UK political views, yes. But I was saying for the US as a whole I was a moderate, would be seen as a RINO (Republican in name only) in the south and heartland for not being rightwing enough. Even the California lib stereotype is not true for all of it: the inner parts are conservative and Arnie was a GOP governor. SF/LA and SoCal are probably the most socially liberal parts of the nation though and New England the most fiscally liberal, isn't Vermont going for a NHS style system above and beyond "Obamacare"? I heard that and that it would be seen as a test of whether single-payer could work in the US.

IdPreferNot- would you consider me a wingnut then? (I hope not given my clear opposition to them, but some people insist on calling me extreme here.)

When you say you think evolution might be true do you mean Darwinian or Lamarckian.

Many republicans like to say that they agree with evolutionary theory but then it turns out they don't mean the accept darwin as fact but they mean lamarckian evolutionary nonsense which is why they are always start talking about they are the right person to be dong a job becuase their grandfather did this or their great grandfather did that so they are the most experienced candidate for the job.

You see Lamarckian believers, of whom Romney is one believe that you are born with the learned traits of your forefather which is why he keep going on about how his dads did this or his grandad did that because in his mind that means he has inherited their traits (not eye or hair coour, but business accumen and work ethic etc) and can also do the same thing and that his fathers abilities are his.

For those who question why faith should be a question at all. Do not forget that the right have spent the last 5 years painting Obama as a muslim because he has an arabic middle name, Hussein, which simply means handsome. The have used the euphamism, unamerican because he is black.

They right do not want to mention faith now because Romney holds the equivalent position in his cult of a Roman Catholic cardinal. This is a man who is one step down from being his cult's pope and yet he now wants to say that his faith is not important. Does he really expect anyone to believe that he got to that high priest position by standing against their stated beliefs, for not toeing the line perfectly so it is irrelevant.

I mean Darwinian, the other type is pseudoscience. More race-baiting? When will you stop?

Extro would be quite right wing here in Minnesota too, and we're what one thinks of us "right wing country" even though we're really not.

We'll still be a country in 150 years. What kind of country we'll be remains to be seen, of course. :)

I am...well, not pro-life really. I have pro-life leanings and can not think of a situation in which I would have an abortion personally, but I realize that outlawing them is not the answer.

But I will never vote for a politician who says he or she is pro-life, anyway, because most of them are pro-death penalty and anti-social programs and seem to want to go to war at the drop of a hat. Fuck 'em. They don't care about those babies once they're born and I would never ally myself with them.

But Extro is not a US citizen or resident, so is of no use as an example in trying to understand the attitudes of those who are (the point of this thread)

But I am. Born n' bred. :o Pick my brain all you want.