Census

[caliDreaming]

The census results have been published (unsure of how accurate they are) and it shows that our population is rising.

This topic has been covered on MN before, but I'm just wondering if anyone else is concerned by it, so far as to change the way they feel about having 'X' amount of children? I feel strongly about the world we leave behind for our children (if we decide to have them), but I don't know if it's (overpopulation etc) all just a load of crap?

There's a really big problem and I'm not sure how it will easily be resolved.

Basically there's only a finite amount of resources on the planet and we're demolishing them at a phenomenal rate. Rain forests, mineral/metal mining and of course oil.

As the population increases and economies grow, so does the demand for natural resources. We can see this already with the rise of China, the price of oil and other commodities have risen.

At the same time advances in technology & medicine mean we are living longer despite the fact we in the west are unhealthier than ever. As a result there are more & more old people to support. So we need a larger working population to pay taxes towards pensions for the old. So if we are not having more people then immigration is the only way if we are to maintain our standard of living in this country. And that's not exactly popular either at the moment.

I'd like to see how the numbers break down and where the increases are coming from. My main concern, outside the way in which the proportion of old people to young people is changing, would be the spread of population. I don't subscribe to the view that the UK is 'full', more that the population is very unevenly distributed - and I would expect it to find it is ever more concentrated in the South East - leading to all kinds of problems from crime to housing to the supply of water. A national strategy of bringing other population centres up to speed and encouraging population to locate outside of the SE is long overdue.

I'm past bringing more children into the world but this kind of information wouldn't have made any difference.

I think the projection is still that Britain will end up with too many old folk & not enough youngsters without immigration; the underlying trend is still of population decline amongst the native born.

Global population growth would best be reduced by giving better education to all & better access to contraception to young women in particular. There doesn't need to be any guilt or coercion.

the biggest increase came from people living longer - a 25% increase in those living beyond 90

There are so many things we can do to make the situation better! The problem is political will to adopt possibly unpopular long term strategies.

What sort of things solo?

You'd have to pay me a lot of money to make me divulge my secrets for saving the world, Sirzy!

Seriously, I do think there are a lot of things we can all do, and many of us are already doing.

One thing is important, imo, and that is we should not grab at what seem to be magic solutions. There aren't any. So no building of walls, no stopping of immigration, no laws to reduce the size of families, no quiet disposal of inconvenient elderly people (bring on the sinister music).

Since I was unwise enough to write my previous post, and since Sirzy has called my bluff, I'm going to jump in. Nothing original, I'm afraid. Good for you if you get to the end ...

Here they are, accompanied by the sound of my neck sticking out.

To deal with a larger local population, here are the obvious things we need to do/continue doing.
1 More job creation schemes, especially for young people.
2 To provide more housing: adapt empty buildings rather than build new ones.
3 To improve our quality of life: protect green spaces because they provide us with oxygen and without them our lives would be so much worse.
4 To improve our health: bring back the NHS
5 To save resources: recycle more and use our cars less. Pollute less.

A lot of this involves redistributing wealth. Obviously.

To deal with a larger global population:
1 Education, especially for women
2 Higher living standards for all. If things are OK in your own country you won't need to move abroad in order to survive.
3 To protect food supplies: more money to local farmers, less to the big boys.
4 To protect resources: more regulation is needed to reduce the damage done by huge multinationals; more education and local strategies for developing nations, etc

More redistribuition of wealth.

And fewer wasteful wars. While people are fighting they are not producing food, getting educated or thinking about the future. (And no, killing people is not the answer to population problems - see my previous post).

This population 'problem' is a red herring, since the real problem is the way in which some people are too rich and want to keep all the earth's resources for themselves. We need them to share.

I have spoken. .

I think you speak a lot of sense solo. Trying to limit population growth isn't going to work so we need to find a way to maximise the worlds resources and help each other.

I think getting scared about the rising population can be dangerous, because it makes us feel threatened, and that always brings out the worst in human nature. It makes us feel that we are in a struggle for survival and that we need to protect ourselves against other people, and it makes us less caring human beings.

I think the way to survive is to work together, for each other. The only other way is Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)!

I overheard two young men (aged 16/17) discussing it recently and they were saying - with no inhibitions - how we need to 'cull' older people. It made my blood run cold. Also, at another time I heard someone say that disasters (tsunami, earthquake etc) had advantages - as long as they do not happen here.

These were otherwise normal, likeable teenagers who were coming out with these views. Tbh, I think they were trying them out rather than really believing them, but just the fact that they could express them with no embarrassment was worrying.

I wonder how they would feel if on their 70th birthday they were taken away from their families and culled? I don't know how anyone can place so little value on the life of someone else.

They were playing with ideas, not 100% seriously, I hope!

I don't know if they have grand parents ...

Ah, the arrogance of youth eh? Useless old people who are a drain....Wonder how they would react if us old gimmers suggested that we could cull young people who commit serious crimes, druggies, rapists etc ... you know all those young people who are a drain on society

Some young people do think that, Grimbletart! I've heard (semi-) serious discussions about bringing back capital punishment, banishing transgressors to desert islands, etc.

Well you know things go in circles. We had a few lovely decades of life-affirming, generous philosophies. Then the backlash started, and I'm afraid it's only just got going.

When people feel threatened, they try to remove the threat. And invent a narrative that allows them to do so with a clear conscience.