Why hasn't there been a peoples protest?

[Ryoko]

Thinking about this the other day, we have the TUC, NUT etc coming out in force to moan about the treatment they get from the government, often treated with disdain from the masses as "they get paid more then us", "they have pensions I don't" etc.

Where is the protest for the people?, the general all encompassing protest at the incessant increase in taxation and drop in living standards that is keeping the economy down by ensuring we all keep our cash in our pockets (what little we have left).

Just a thought.

The obvious answer is that most people do not object. Or do not object strongly enough to protest.

I and many of my friends are very willing to protest as we find this government fucking cruel

How would I protest? I'm knackered.

Cameron's victims were well chosen, in that they are all too old, too ill, too disabled or (in the case of the carers) too damned tired to do anything about it.

Yep you have a point there colditz all my friends of knackered carers. And of course Cameron knows this

You'll get your chance to protest. It's called a General Election. Just don't be surprised if other lot get us all into an even bigger pickle.

Ryoko-

I have to ask the question: have you been living in a cave for the past several years?

For the past decade, a global protest movement has been in the ascendancy. People are starting to rise up against the total takeover of neo-liberal policies in people's lives.

There have been protests, for example, almost every night in NYC against wealth inequality, corruption, and the attack on peoples living standards.

Last may the student movement against fees and scrapping of the EMA saw the takeover of the Tory scum building in London, where it was ransacked and trashed.

You can be very sure that this spring and summer, there will be tens of thousands of people out on the streets in London and around the UK protesting against the things I mentioned.

People have had enough, and many people are very, very angry. We just need to mobilise more people to the streets and say that we've had enough, and that we won't take it anymore.

You'll get your chance to protest. It's called a General Election. Just don't be surprised if other lot get us all into an even bigger pickle.

General elections are meaningless. We don't live in a democracy. And in any case, parties don't even feel obliged to follow their manifesto policies anymore. So it doesn't matter who you vote for.

I'm disabled (MS, wheelchair), dp is ft carer. We are active in anti cuts group, write leaflets, run stalls, picket stuff.
Enjoy the 'other lot' yourefer to have the same policies.
Don't vote for more of the same.

I cannot take my autistic 8 yearold with me to do any of those things, Julia, and cameron would havce known this, which is why he targeted carers.

;)

My main form of protest is via rude pictures of cameron on facebook [shame]

Fair enough, colditz - we have a few members in your situation; they participate via facebook etc if poss, but those who can, are happy to annoy the current administration on your behalf.

ttosca you are talking about many small groups protesting against different elements, Students can get lobbed in with the TUC etc, I wouldn't attend a student protest they are full of over privileged brats and prats (like my friend) who just want to shit stir.

I'm thinking of something focused on the one issue of our stupid levels of taxation, in the same manner as the anti war in Iraq protests (that the government totally ignored).

Ryoko-

On the one hand, you want a popular protest bringing all different groups together, but on the other hand, you disparage some groups as being over privileged brats who want to stir shit.

It's not a good idea to put down other people's protests and call them invalid whilst calling for everyone to be involved in a protest which you are most concerned about (for example, taxation).

The students who were protesting had perfectly valid concerns: raising tuition fees from nothing to 9000 pounds per year max and the scrapping of the EMA. You don't have to be an over privileged brat to think this unjust and unfair.

In the end, all these issues are connected. Your personal taxation is high because corporate taxes are low, and have been declining for decades. The scrapping of the EMA and raising of tuition fees, like your taxes, are all part of the same ideology: neo-liberalism.

Governments have been instituting neo-liberal policies since the early 1980s. It's the same formula of a shrinking state, privitising public assets, lower corporate taxation, deregulation, and downward pressure on wages.

Once you see that this is a battle which is being waged on all of us (except the 1% at the top), then you would do well to support everyone's battles as they are being fought - including students.

I'm thinking of something focused on the one issue of our stupid levels of taxation, in the same manner as the anti war in Iraq protests (that the government totally ignored).

And yes, of course the government ignored it. We don't live in a democracy. Protest works when the government cannot ignore it. That's precisely why all effective forms of protests are being increasingly criminilised.

'I'm thinking of something focused on the one issue of our stupid levels of taxation'

I think that most large protests are organised by people on the left and high levels of taxation are not usually one of their concerns, indeeed some would like higher taxation.

Most people who want lower taxation vote Tory. They want tax cuts and they are most often provided by Tory governments. Some countries do get people protesting against high levels of taxation, but they are mainly small business owners, the self-employed etc. who feel that they are being squeezed by the state.

A group that campaigns for lower taxes is the Taxpayers' Alliance. They are sometimes interviewed on TV, but I don't think that tehy are very popular with progressives, as they often highlight the amount of taxpayer money being spent on jobs such as 'sustainability officers' etc.

www.taxpayersalliance.com/press-releases

Ryoko, just out of interest do you want lower taxation for everyone?

I think governments are very clever at pitting one set of people against another, divide and rule, they cause confusion and distrust.

Ttosca makes great points though, that we need to stand together. There is an opportunity now to do something that could shape the future lives of our children before the neo-liberal elite starve us. There are a few problems between different groups, obviously anarchists and socialists both want change and although they will happily protest together on similar issues their politics are not compatible. However the more pressing matter should be about stopping the Tory Government from inflicting more missery on us.

The thing I find confusing is the fact that many groups are allied to each other but not acting in accord, I do think we all need to be better organised.

Absolutely, mini.

Perhaps we should protest by not one single one of us casting a single vote in the next election. We just collectively as a nation say, NO. You in these Parties are all rubbish, we object to your non-policies and non promise keeping. So put that in your pipe. Hah!

What would happen if that were the case?

It's a nice fantasy.

Unfortunately, what would happen is that all the lefties and liberals would withhold their vote, whilst all the reactionaries like LFN and claig would vote for the Tory scum - thereby insuring them a landslide victory.

In other words, disaster. :(

I wouldn't speak for Claig, I think you'd have to ask, I can see some people's views of the left are perhaps softening because only someone who lacks all empathy would vote for the right.

Conservativism pisses me off because it's based on realism which is why you get people chanting the mantra that it's all hard work and application, as though social circs , health, education and other factors don't inhibit progress. I also dislike the idea that happiness comes from within! (the medicalisation of depression and profiteering of capital) as though all thought processes are interior and therefore there is no two way communication between individuals and environment. (this way of thinking dominates because of capitalism) The origin of thought is the interaction of thinking and experiencing, experience and changing thoughts. We are all subject to the socio-political environment and we can not act alone outside of it but current thinking places the responsibility onto the individual for his circs, his wellbeing and his social status.

Our current socio/economic and political environment causes missery, even to those unaware like middle class women on happy pills. There is a correlation with falling living standards. 1880-1970 rising wages and living standards. After 1970 growth in the economy doubled but wages remained stagnant. Correlates with more women being diagnosed depressed and drugged up with happy pills. In the past people have proposed that it correlated with more women staying home to play dishwasher dolly but after 1970 more women started to go out to work, why? not because they wanted holidays but because it mitigated falling living standards.

I would also point out that growth is no longer sustainable in the economy which is why post tech/computer more is being squeezed out of less workers, but even that isn't sufficient to create greater profit, hence the need for lower wages. It won't stop, it will get worse. I think we have an opportunity for change however I don't believe the population is savvy enough to seize it. Marx said that the greatest revolutionaries were the borgiosie, only when their own standards were under threat would there be action. So I guess we need harsher policy and more misery, more squeezing of the middle! before anything will change. At least we have Ryoko's posh twatty students on board though Sorry for the essay.

Oh, so we had our chance at the General Election, did we? That would explain why they've just rammed through the privatization of the NHS despite the health bill not being in any of the manifestos, nor in the coalition agreement.

When politicians are so contemptuous of the electorate - let's not forget the appalling expenses scandal, and this week's revelations about Tory donors being encouraged to break the law and able to buy government policy for £250k - it's hardly surprising that people are alienated and believe politicians are 'all the same' or 'only out for themselves'.

But they've got that covered, of course, with policing that makes it incredibly difficult to assert our democratic right to protest. Who's going to risk suffering brain injuries, like Alfie Meadows? How many disabled people want to be pulled from their wheelchairs and dragged along the ground? Even if people are prepared to risk it, Boris is making it well-nigh illegal to protest in Trafalgar Square, and protest near parliament is very heavily restricted.

I'm not a reactionary, whatever that means. I just vote Tory like the highest proportion of voters in the country did. I disagree with LFN's views on the tanker drivers etc. LFN would rather vote for the progressive, Gisela Stuart, than the conservative, Ken Clarke, which I would not do. LFN also thinks climate change is the real deal, so I don't think she is a reactionary, but is somewhat progressive.

Most protests are in some way factional. There is unlikely to be a protest of teh people on anything, because the people do not agree on most things, they all have different views. Some like Ryoko, LFN and I are for lower taxes and others are for higher taxes. Some believe we have only 50 days left to save the planet and others don't. There is a silent majority who feel we are overtaxed and ripped off, but none of the political activists who lobby parliament or create think tanks or want to save the planet care about that, so they don't organise any protests about that. So the silent majority just grumble into their tea and hope that things will one day change.