'The poor deserve to die; the rich deserve unmediated power.' What do you think?

[Solopower]

According to George Monbiot, Objectivism is a belief system that contends that selfishness is good, altruism evil, empathy and compassion irrational and destructive. It's Ayn Rand's philosophy and becoming very popular in the US.

It's the perfect justification for capitalism. This seems to be what has informed Tory policy for most of the 20th century and is probably behind the government's desire to reduce the role of the State - they believe in the survival of the fittest. The rich survive because they deserve to. The rest of us are runts and parasites and they want rid of us.

'Apart from the police, the courts and the armed forces, there should be no role for government: no social security, no public health or education, no public infrastructure or transport, no fire service, no regulations, no income tax.'

Could it work?

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/05/new-right-ayn-rand-marx

It seems to me that Rand's philosophy - and by extension the sort of rampant capitalism we have been suffering from in the last few decades - have their own self-destruct button.

Society can't survive if only the strongest survive, because the struggle for existence will get fiercer and fiercer until eventually they all kill each other.

Much better to work for a more caring, compassionate society. Mutual trust. Respect. You know you want to really.

'would it be fair to judge capitalism by the economic crisis it has created at this time and in this place?'

Capitalism didn't create the crisis. It was people who created the crisis - reckless gamblers and regulators who failed in their duty.

'They' are the elite. Of course, sometimes they wear the clothes of the left, of the Marxists or of "climate catastrophe", and sometimes they wear the clothes of the right, like Ayn Rand.

Who/what is the elite, Claig?

The elite are the super rich who exercise real power behind the puppets that represent their philosophies - be that Ayn Rand, the Marxists or the "climate catastrophists".

SWC what do you think has informed the neoliberal agenda over the last 30/40 years?
Rand and Friedman seem quite comfortable bedfellows to me.

Maybe history is about to restart, eh?

Could it be, let me think - David Cameron? The very richest people in the world? Bankers?

Aren't they the people who have used globalisation and capitalism to create their vast fortunes (whether or not they come from a nominally 'communist' regime), exploiting every single opportunity to feather their own nests? Isn't capitalism the perfect system for them, because they can do it openly, and even be admired for it and get knighthoods?

And then - and this is hilarious - we thank them for 'keeping our economy afloat', and we beg them to stay in the UK and keep on exploiting us! We try to make things comfortable for them, we make laws so that they will grace us with their presence and continue ripping us off and we help them to ensure the survival of the system that they benefit so neatly from!

David Cameron was not responsible for 'light-touch regulation' of the bankers. Osborne is trying to institute effective regulation.

We are more prosperious than the Sovet Socialist Republics were because we believe in freedom. the liberalism of neloliberalism and free enterprise. We don't believe that all our private efforts and businesses should be appropriated by an elite who pretend that they know what is best for us.

We need regulation to prevent anyone "ripping us off". Most businesses do not rip us off. Cowboy traders are dealt with by regulation not by putting cowboys in control of us.

We have a great free system that encourages enterprise. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's just throw the cowboy out in free elections.

Let's just throw the cowboy out in free elections, just as the peoples of Eastern Europe have thrown the communist out.

Well DC is in charge. If he is not responsible, why doesn't he stop it instead of making it easier for people to profiteer from the lack of regulation in the UK?

The whole philosophy behind big (and small) business and capitalism is survival of the fittest - which just means selfishness, doesn't it? I will put my prices up to the very highest that I think you can afford to pay. I will lure you into debt by playing on your weaknesses (ie greed for stuff), which I sneakily encourage by bombarding you with advertising messages which make you want things in spite of yourself. I will undercut my competitors if I can or join up into huge protective cartels with our own code of practice (that we would all break if it were in our interests to do so). I will put pressure on governments to make them create a situation that is favourable to me and allows me to make a profit out of selling sweets to children that rot their teeth and make them obese (if I didn't do it someone else will). It's not pretty, is it?

That is what the freemarket is - no regulation, let a business sink or swim. The markets will regulate themselves because they are innately benign and love us really (but themselves more).

it seems to me that capitalism massively magnifies all that is selfish and greedy in human beings - and that can only lead to annihilation, eventually.

But with any luck, something else will come along. At some point enough of us are going to feel so sick of all this, and we'll want a change.

He is stopping it. 'Light-touch regulation' was New Labour's way of doing things. Remember the song played by New Labour so often, "Things can only get better", well it is finally coming true under Cameron.

We can't change the system by throwing out any one individual in an election. You said yourself - the 'elites' are behind anyone who is in government, whispering in their ears and stroking their hair.

I don't know what has got into me this evening.

'The whole philosophy behind big (and small) business and capitalism is survival of the fittest - which just means selfishness, doesn't it? I will put my prices up to the very highest that I think you can afford to pay.'

Not at all. Capitalism is not an elitist socialist system where the planners can do what they like with no opposition or competition. In a free enterprise capitalist system, there is always competition which ensures that there is price competition and no one can charge whatever they like without regard to the fair value of the market, or they will go out of business.

'the 'elites' are behind anyone who is in government, whispering in their ears and stroking their hair.'

But an informed populace can force the elite to consider the interests of the people. The elite are not stupid, they may use propaganda, but once the populace has rumbled them, they change their tune.

So they decide among themselves what to charge.

Capitalism isn't fair. I think it's a con trick. Socialism has better ideas - much more life-affirming, humane, caring and sharing. We'd all be happier if we were nicer to people, you know. (Though if you do it to make yourself happy, it's still selfish, isn't it?) If we weren't always trying to get money out of each other. More for me = less for you.

It's about checks and balances in a free democratic system. We are not doomed, the planet will not be destroyed, there is no catastrophe, whatever the elite say.

Nah, we're not doomed. Only some of us are. We can't all survive, can we? We can't all be the fittest.

Capitalism, like democracy, is the best system we have got.

'We'd all be happier if we were nicer to people, you know.'

We are all nice to people. It was teh communist who created teh gulags, we didn't. We allow people to have freedom, we are nice.

Don't believe they people who tell you to be nicer, who tell you that you are destroying the planet. Ask them what they are doing, what they are like and tell them to remove the moat from their eye.

'We can't all survive, can we? We can't all be the fittest.'

Of course we can. Now you are sounding like Ayn Rand and the elitists. Don't let them fool you. Don't give up hope, the planet will survive.

Why? We can't not do things because other people aren't doing them, can we? I can be nice if I want to. Maybe one day I shall be a shining example to us all. One day.

I'm very argumentative tonight.

I think I'd better go to bed. Nice chatting to you.

Oops cross posted. My why? was in relation to your previous post.

Nice chatting to you, Solo. Good night.

Night.