Do we no longer live in a democracy?

[LilyBolero]

The United Kingdom purports to be a democracy. And yet, the people of this country have no say in what happens in this country.

Look at the NHS reforms. Nobody voted for them. Cameron and Lansley KNEW that if they announced what they were planning before the election, they would be roundly beaten. And so they kept it secret. Now, when polls say that 73% of voters oppose the use of private companies in the NHS, and 62% of voters do not trust the Tories on the NHS, when they are opposed by many health organisations (Royal College of GPs, Royal College of Nurses, Royal College of Midwives, Royal College of physiotherapists, and the list goes on and on) - their solution is to shut the door on them, and to exclude them from any further discussions.

How is this democracy? Most people DON'T WANT the reforms. Most medical people DON'T WANT the reforms. Even half the government DON'T WANT the reforms. And yet, because Cameron and Lansley want them, this is what is going to happen. Cameron said 'No more top-down reorganisation of the NHS'.

Then we have Michael Gove imposing his 'ban on termtime holidays'. Is it not up to parents to decide how to bring up their children? Has he forgotten that it is not 'his' country, to rule as he wishes, but all of our country.

Even on the economy, we have no democratic say. At the last election, there were 2 distinct approaches. The Labour way, and the LibDem way was to halve the deficit over 4-5 years. The Conservative way was to cut savagely and to eliminate the deficit in 5 years. Although elections are rarely fought on one issue, I think in the extraordinary situation of 2010, it would be fair to say that the economy was the over-riding issue, and if ever an election was mono-issue, it was that one.

The first solution, of shallower cuts received about 15.4 million votes. The second solution of savage cuts received 10.7 million votes.

So we get the second option.

The Lib Dems campaigned on a ticket of 'pledging to oppose ANY rise in tution fees'. In government, they are trebling the tuition fees.

David Cameron before the election said he 'liked child benefit being a universal benefit'. He said 'I LIKE child benefit, I WOULDN'T CHANGE child benefit'.

Now he is abolishing child benefit for some in an unfair and incompetent slash at families.

They are liars, and buy votes through lies, and then do whatever the hell they want. We should be able to force an election and actually hold politicians to account. We don't live in a democracy, we live in a fascist dictatorship.

You are soooooo right op.Dp and I had this exact conversation last night.

Re the NHS talks today why is nobody doing anything??????I feel powerless and I guess so does everybody else so we do nothing.

Did you also know there is a risk assessment report on the NHS reforms, which ministers are refusing to publish, as it is damning?

They said it is 'for internal use only'......

I guess all we can do is not vote for Con Dems(which I didn't).

Anybody know of a good alternative????? Seriously dp and I want to start supporting some serious opposition,tiny problem though-can't see any.

Are there any other decent parties worth supporting?

There is also Responsible Reform

A consultancy took place as required, but the findings were ignored and breached the government's own code of practice.

Pre-election Dave told a high-profile MNer to her face in her own home that the Tories would take care of disabled people.

The House of Lords are being reduced to figureheads.

We have never pretended to live in meritocracy, so many intelligent people who are disadvantaged will never succeed and also many limited people who have had every advantage will always do well.

I agree it's depressing and infuriating. It makes me want to kill them.

But voters had the chance to change the way our voting system works to try and prevent this sort of government in the referendum last year. They blew it. That is also deeply depressing. We won't get the chance again any time soon.

Link here

"Risk assessments drawn up by the four English health regions warn that there is a high risk of the proposed reforms reducing safety and patient care and causing overspending. The internal reports warn of a high risk that the improvements in management and reduced costs that the reforms are supposed to achieve may not come about."

"In London, officials have warned that there is a high risk of losing key staff, which, combined with poor information sharing, could lead to a "preventable harm to children"."

"Last year, civil servants at the Department of Health drew up a one-off national-risk register that is thought to have raised similar concerns. Mr Lansley is fighting a legal battle to avoid having to publish it."

This is what frightens me - we have a non-elected government that has questionable ideology, and staggering incompetence (the child benefit debacle is a perfect example of this

Agree completely. They are pursuing idealogical cuts using the economic situation as justification.

They have found the money to bribe local councils to keep weekly bin collections because they know that this is an issue that would alienate their core voters. They have pushed 'free schools', so areas that already have sufficient provision of school places are forced to pay out money to new schools where can have people teaching without any professional qualifications!

ArielnonBio - it wasn't the British voters who blew it, it was Nick Clegg. Because he had the chance to show how a 3rd party could be a real force for good in a coalition, and to show how a system that would encourage coalitions would be good.

He blew it big time. Anyone who saw the shambles we have as a Government would want to make coalitions as unlikely as possible.

Are these nhs 'reforms' happening in Wales too?

The way the voting system works is more than one man, Lily. I'm talking long term.

And yes ideally, Nick Clegg would have some integrity instead of being a spineless, lily livered piece of crap.

MrsHeffley it is tragic. At a time when plans are being made to dismantle the NHS we have no Opposition. It's not even a vacuum because that would at least draw in a few bits of lint that might mildly annoy Cameron by sticking to his jacket. It's like the Labour party disappeared. They're still there right? No-one's noticed a lot of empty benches on one side of the House?

The Lib Dems could only have been effective in coalition if the Conservatives had won less seats - If they needed the Lib Dems more.

I'm interested in that as well itsallgoingtobefine I'm never sure how much will 'cross the border'

Not that it will stop me shouting loud and long about how wrong it all is, but I would like to know.

One of Cameron's election pledges was to "cut the deficit not the NHS"
He has done neither. He was democratically (nearly) elected on the basis of false promises. In a court of law, he'd be guilty of fraud.

So, no: not democratic. YANBU and IAVA

I think that was a typo Garlic.

ArielNonBio - yes, voting reform should be more than 1 man. Unfortunately, Nick Clegg was so closely identified with AV (which incidentally he previously described as a 'miserable little compromise') that no-one was interested. And the idea that it might make coalitions more likely was a killer, bearing in mind the coalition that we have been landed with.

Oh, it was meant to be the other way around?!

Would still count as fraud. Imagine if cigarette manufacturers accidentally put "Smoking improves your health" on their packets!

Have you been to any of the countries that are truly undemocratic? Do you know what it was like living under a dictator? No freedom of speech? Frightened for your life?
What a very silly, immature and ignorant thing to day. By all means slate the government, object to their policies whatever. But they WERE voted in.

I thought the fact that scaryteacher wasn't concerned about losing her child benefit was very magnaminous of her .
I have said this before and I will say this again, modern democracies are not democractic, unless you happen to think that choosing a politicians tie colour is a good thing to vote on.
Proportional representation might go some way to addressing this but only some way.
Elections every four years is also unreasonable, as is being demonstrated by the conservatives and previously labour, a lot of damage can be caused in four years.
A true democracy would incoporate ways of holding politicians and parties accountable for their ideas with penalties imposeable when they did things not mentioned in their manifesto and also went against the will of the majority.
With modern technology their is no reason why more issues could not be put up for a general vote.

say

A month before the election, Cameron said ""Our plans involve cutting wasteful spending ? our plans don't involve an increase in VAT."

NHS - ""We will stop top-down reorganisations of the NHS,"

Child Benefit - "I wouldn't change child benefit, I wouldn't means test it, I don't think that's a good idea."

EMA - Michael Gove said ""Ed Balls keeps saying that we are committed to scrapping EMA. I have never said this. We won't."

And lots of other lies and broken promises here

It is downright fraud. These lies bought votes, which gave them the power to trash our country. And they didn't even have enough votes to get a majority, how DARE they do the things they are doing?

theodorakis

I certainly have - and it is because of those countries that it is imperative that western democracies function as PROPER democracies, with the view of the electorate ACTUALLY being taken into account.

Otherwise how can we ever have any influence on the world stage? How can we encourage democracy?

Fair enough, I think the worst place I lived was Bangladesh, or maybe Manilla. I don't really think it's the same though.

The idea that we don't have democracy is rubbish.

Every person in the house of commons is democratically elected. The coalition, whether you personally voted for one of them or not, is made up of democratically elected men and women. If you think they lied to get into power, then that makes them liars and the voters suckers, but it doesn't make them any less democratically elected. The problem is with the person, not the system.

You are so right, OP.