to think the benefits cap is a deliberate smoke screen to divert us from the bigger picture?

[migratingsouth]

Yes, it sounds a bit conspiracy theory, but I reckon it's got legs ...

Interesting article in the Guardian "Bash the poor and wave the flag ? how this Tory trick works"

The gist of it is that the Tories are taking a leaf out of the US Republican's book.

For years the Republicans have managed to get people to vote against their own financial interests, not by actually engaging them in debate about the economy, but by deliberately focusing on "cultural anxieties" they know will get people going - abortion and gay marriage in their case. The idea is that the politicians aren't actually that bothered about abortion issues or gay marriage in themselves, instead they are using these issues as tools to distract people so they don't notice they're being royally fucked over actually voting against their own interests.

The author of this article reckons Cameron's up to the same trick, only the difference is that the "cultural anxieties" that get us going are benefits and nationalism.

He says

"This week saw proof that Britain is no longer merely suffering from anaemic growth but actual contraction, a shrinkage of 0.2%. One more dose of this, and we will be in official recession. And yet a day earlier the Guardian/ICM poll showed the Conservatives surging into a five-point lead over Labour, their highest rating for nearly two years. "

and

"Thus the memorable political conflict of this week was not over that contraction in GDP, which should have registered as devastating proof that the government's economic strategy is not working. It was over plans to cap benefits at £26,000. The timing may have been a function of the House of Lords' timetable, but the strategy of the cap itself is clear. Rather than training its guns on the masters of high finance who caused the crash and had to be bailed out with billions in taxpayers' cash ? the scroungers at the top ? the government is channelling our rage towards those on benefits, the "scroungers" at the bottom."

and

"Bashing benefit claimants and waving the flag gets the polls numbers up ? and all the while the economy tanks and the banks get to keep paying out bonuses. It works like a charm."

AIBU?

Doh! Republicans' not Republican's

Of course it is. YANBU.

YANBU. It feels a bit 'V for Vendetta' I think.

YANBU.

But we're stupid (not all of us) for falling for it. My parents fall for it hook line and sinker... they're DM readers and almost always in a frenzy of frothing 'outrage' about something or other that has never affected them. They also take the view that the Tories are at least 'sorting things out'.

Hmm. I'm on the fence with a lot of things, but labour were reforming the benefits system too, only I don't remember the rallying of anger.

It's hard not to fall for it though, whichever "side" you're on.

I reckon it should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of compassion and/or common sense that the benefits cap is inherently unjust. However by getting drawn into arguments on it, aren't we being suckered too?

If we're spending our time arguing the toss with the benefits bashers on mumsnet (I know I find it hard not to get drawn in!) isn't that diverting our energies from the more important issues?

Perhaps the fact that it's so unjust actually helps create the smokescreen, it wouldn't keep us all so busy otherwise!

Not that this'll stop me arguing with benefit bashers, I can't help it!

YABU.

The majority of people don't understand enough about economics to have a valid opinion on it anyway, that is the reason why people don't focus on the bigger picture. I know I don't understand enough about it, that's why I am happy to leave it to other people. The same as most politicians have no idea how to do my job. There is no point in me having an opinion about how we avoid recession, I know nothing about it. But I do know about other things, so I will have an opinion on them.

Popular issues are popular issues for a reason.

YABU to say that it should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of compassion or common sense should be able to see that the benefits cap is unjust. It is a cap that is supposed to stop people who are able to work from having a better standard of living on benefits than they do in work. It is not unjust. It does not make someone devoid of common sense or compassion if they agree with a cap.

It would show a lack of compassion and common sense to say that benefits shouldn't be available, obviously, but no one is suggesting and end to benefits, only a limit.

If people care more about issues surrounding the welfare state, abortion, gay marriage or even fox hunting, they are perfectly entitled to do so. People will always care more about the things that they can understand and make a valid opinion on, and the things that affect them.

Um, why not do something about raising the standard of living / wages for people in work, rather than penalising those who need help?

£26K is bandied around as if it's a cap solely for a single person on benefits, but that's the amount for a whole family, including Housing Benefit. The main problem with excessive benefits bills here is house / rent prices IMO. And there are other, more creative, less damaging (to society as a whole) solutions than pushing people on benefits out of the centre of big cities.

The cap will push people - including many children - into poverty and our whole society will be poorer as a result. It will also cost us money, not save money (there will be a bigger burden on other services due to the costs to society of increased poverty).

If benefits are not distributed based on need, but instead on an arbitrary cap, then that is saying that " that benefits shouldn't be available", to some people.

You're right that economics can be complex (but so can the benefits system!)

But this stuff really does effect you, massively so! Much more than benefits, fox hunting, abortion issues etc, the state of the economy affects whether you have a job, access to the medicines you need to cure you, the opportunities available to your children, the general levels of health in the population, crime levels, I could go on!

A quick economics lesson: all parties have for some time supported free-market liberalist policies, which gave us a boom for such a long time. However this boom has now had its inevitable crash.

This was always going to happen. (You don't need to read too much on economics to learn that bust is as inevitable as boom.)

The Tories are using this crash as an excuse to push through their small-government agenda for ideological reasons.

We will all be poorer as a result. (Unless you're big business or mega rich).

The point of the article anyway was not that these policies are popular, but that the public are being manipulated so you don't see what they're really up to. If this is true, would you not resent being manipulated in this way?

So true!

It's a neat trick the Tories are pulling. Eventually people will notice it isn't working, the economy's tanking, unemployment is soaring and they get fed up of the 'wrong kind of snow' stupid excuses. And then, I suspect, the Tories will go to war over the Falklands. Again.