Immigrants on Benefits Figures Published/UK Migration Watch

[BobblyGussets]

Was anyone else listening to R4 this morning? The Government has published (with glee/gusto no doubt) the number of immigrants on benefits (around 350,000 if I remember correctly). Apologies for being vague, it was something on the radio, so will only probably be done in detail in the papers tomorrow. UK Migration Watch (sounds evil, like big brother or something) said their piece too about too many resources being given out in the form of benefits.

My heart is sinking at the coalition between government and the DM and I am imagining the headlines tomorrow. One subtle legal step away from incitement to racial hatred is something the right wing tabloid press to very well and I am very uncomfortable that the government is buying in to this by doing such a thing. On the other hand, I suppose there is an issue with Freedom of information. This does not bode well.

Please feel free to fill in the (no doubt many) gaps, sorry for being vague.

I don't agree with your sinking heart. If anything, the numbers demonstrate that people from overseas aren't 'coming over here, sponging our benefits' because the percentages revealed are rather lower than the rest of the population. The DM will try to whip this into a 'sponging foreigners' story.... they can make any story take that angle let's face it... but I thought the minister on the Today Prog was anything but making this a race issue. Quite deliberately. We have freedom of information for good reason. How anyone chooses to interpret it is down to them.

The government wants to prevent "benefit tourism" in which migrants come to Britain to claim benefits, says the employment minister, Chris Grayling. But he said that the vast majority of immigrants claiming benefits in Britain were entitled to do so.

His comments followed the release of figures from the government that revealed for the first time that 371,000 foreign-born claimants were claiming out-of-work benefits. Of these, 2% were suspected of making fraudulent claims

2% is less than the general population. So more Brits than forriners are scamming. FAB

Grayling said there was "a lot of talk" about Britain's benefit system being a "magnet" for people from around the world.

"Maybe it isn't a big problem right now," he said, but added: "We want to ensure we don't have in Britain a system that encourages benefit tourism."

So we don't actualyl have a problem right now, despite it being insinuated for years. Funny that.

That was from this article

I was interested to read that Grayling wants to take action against EU allowing foreigners to apply for benefits under reciprocal arrangements. Which is bad news for any Brit who lives abroad and is made redundant.

Seriously, how long before the EU lose patience and chuck UK out.

UK benefits are already the lowest in the EU (before the cuts!)

The UK loves poverty.

If the number of immigrants on benefits is greater than zero, it is too high.

Any immigrant who comes here to work and is nevertheless unable to support themselves and their families is not worth having in Britain and should be deported.

Before we get too many uninformed posts like the one from lfn let's get a few facts straight.

People who come to the UK as economic immigrants are not entitled to claim benefits until they have settled status. In most cases the person would be required to have worked in the uk for at least 5 years before they could get settled status, also known as indefinite leave to remain. People who come here as the spouse of a British Citizen or person with settled status can apply for indefinite leave to remain after they have been in the uk for two years.

Settled status should not be given readily. Immigrants should not be allowed to settle here until they have lived here for at least 25 years.

Immigration should be a purely economic issue. If immigrants don't benefit the British economy then we should deport them.

I disagree entirely with the immigration cap. We should have as many rich/highly-skilled immigrants as possible coming to this country. What we shouldn't have are immigrants who have no skills, claim benefits, and have large families in order to claim further benefits, which the rest of us then have to support.

The £26k benefit cap will help, but it is set far too high. A per household benefit cap of £10k per year would be far more sensible.

Ah, need more information on this as my Sister has been shouting about this all bloody weekend. Need some facts to back up my argument :)

Great idea lfn

So if an immigrant marries and has children with a British Citizen works and pays their taxes for 10 years before they lose their job, should the British spouse and children be made to leave the uk as well? Or do the children just lose their father/mother.

Why should someone be forced out of the home and life they have made for themselves after 24 years because they lose their job before the magic 25 years, even though they may have paid more taxes than a British person claiming benefits.

Actually, I choose to believe that you are on a deliberate windup and that you don't really hold such xenophobic views about 'those shady good for nothin' furriners'. Have a

Longfingernails
So you really expect hard working decent immigrants to want to come to UK if it takes them 25 years to gain settled status?

I have been in Germany / Switzerland for almost 20 years. I'd have fucked off back home if I'd been told I have to wait so long.

Yes, work permits can be separated from settlement. The US does it successfully - it has big illegal immigration problems, but legal immigration is done pretty well there - and the rules for getting a green card are about right. I don't see any shortage of skilled immigrants wanting to work in the States.

25 years is just as arbitrary as 5 years. If necessary a taper can be put into effect after 15 years.

It isn't xenophobic to want immigrants to pay for themselves (and their families) over the long-term, and to want this pricinple enshrined into the law of the land.

You're an idiot, lfn.

In Scotland we need economic migrants. And it's a shame asylum seekers are not allowed to work. Many are skilled and want a job - they should be lowed to get one.

I'm fairly relaxed about it all.

Why don't you stick to copy/pasting articles from the Grauniad, ttosca? You seem to have a penchant for it.

In the meantime, I can take some small satisfaction that many ideas I am sympathetic to are being implemented in government, albeit in a pathetically weak form. Meanwhile, you are reduced to putting your hopes and dreams behind Red Ed, a man so completely inept that he has led Labour to 5 points behind (yes, BEHIND) in the polls at a time when the government should be massively unpopular.

NormanTebbit I think the whole of the UK needs more skilled economic migrants, not just Scotland.

One problem with allowing asylum seekers to work is that it gives them a potential grounds for appeal on via ridiculous ECHR judgements if it is decided that their asylum claim is not legitimate. If we left the jurisdiction of the ECHR, then I would definitely support the idea of asylum seekers being allowed to work.

(yawn)

Migration is a fact of life. It's just going to happen. We might as well be positive, give people opportunities and treat them properly. Immigrants formed the backbone of our NHS and services back in the 50's and we need young healthy people with a work ethic to support our ageing population.

Good luck to them, I say.

What no part of the UK needs is unskilled economic migrants who become a drain on the system.

If an immigrant is not a net giver, but a net taker, then frankly, we are better off without him/her. And that has to include all costs, including the unseen cost of the additional resources needed for housing/education/infrastructure/the NHS/social services.

lfn - so my DH, who has lived here for 7 years, paid loads of tax from his way-higher-than-average salary and has a British wife and two British kids, is less entitled to benefits, should be become redundant, than a British teenager who has never paid tax? In that case, the age for receiving benefits for British citizens should also be raised to 25.

Why should foreign nationals be thrown out the second they lose their jobs? There aren't exactly loads of jobs out there for them to take! I should imaging most of them have contributed a fair whack in tax before claiming benefits.

as already pointed out 1) it takes years to qualify for benefits, usually they'll have paid loads of tax in this country before ever claiming anything in return
2) immigrants not eligible for benefits are the poorest people in the Uk, and the lives they lead are a disgrace to the nation: how can a civilised country let people live like that?
3) people granted asylum usually pay in tax the full cost of their settlement in this country within 5 years, even with the long non-working waiting period.
4) illegal immigration is a totally different ball game, as those immigrants are very unlikely to ever claim benefits by their very nature..
5) remember the NHS skills shortage? that was filled by immigrants. I'd rather they stayed in this country. Even if they claim benefits during periods of unemployment.

how people can get angry about people who have worked in this country being able to claim benefits here, is beyond me. oh, wait...xenophobia..that would be why...

It always suprises me that people are prepared to bang on about immigrants being a drain on resources but not about large businesses who use our workforce and infrastructure to make money but do not pay tax in this country.

Immigrants form about 8% of our population. They contribute 10% to the GDP.

It is also peculiar how it is always the fault of those scheming immigrants for stealing 'our' jobs- and nothing at all to do with the business decisions of the British businesses who decide to hire them.

Why don't you stick to copy/pasting articles from the Grauniad, ttosca? You seem to have a penchant for it.

Yeah, maybe I should. With people like you and 'niceguy' around, who seem to have a total disregard for facts when forming your reactionary opinions, maybe it's a better first step than actually trying to argue with you.

In the meantime, I can take some small satisfaction that many ideas I am sympathetic to are being implemented in government, albeit in a pathetically weak form. Meanwhile, you are reduced to putting your hopes and dreams behind Red Ed, a man so completely inept that he has led Labour to 5 points behind (yes, BEHIND) in the polls at a time when the government should be massively unpopular.

See, you are an idiot. Because I think the Tories are vile sociopathic scum, then I must, ipso facto, be a Labour supporter. Yet, have I ever shown support for New Labour? On another thread, just a few minutes ago, I suggested to a woman that her son shouldn't bother joining New Labour if he wants to make the UK a better place. You can check it out yourself.

Basically, you're a little-Englander, xenophobic reactionary. Immigrants are not the cause of the UKs economic problems. In fact, they are part of the solution. If you look up, you'll see that there are numerous posts explaining why this is the case.

In reality, your position on this matter isn't about saving money for the economy, since that argument fails spectacularly, it's about 'keeping out the foreigners'.

i think actually both the two major parties are in trouble on this issue. Labour annoyed many of its grass supporters as immigration grew over the last ten years...and brought in stupid ill-thought out measures as a consequence. The con-dems haven't done much about those measures (aside from getting children out of detention centres, which is a start) and will probably add more ill-thought out measures to please their grass roots. probably the economic climate will do the job for them though: in a downturn immigration decreases.

people only hire foreigners when they can't get Uk citizens right for the job. employers are xenophobes too! the paperwork for hiring out-of-EU can be a complete nightmare - employers only do this if they have to.

still, i feel it likely that whichever govt we have, it is going to feel it has to do 'something' in response to those figures.

Poe we still detain children, just in 'family centres' not detention centres. So that is alright then .