anyone know is scotland does get independence, if scotland will still be in the eu?

[Iwantababynow]

and what about if you are scottish but living in england? or english living in scotland due to work.

As far as I understand it (saw an article on this a while back), if Scotlands leaves the United Kingdom they would have to apply for membership of the EU as a new "member state". The (remainder) of the UK would not have to reappluy because the UK is already a member iyswim.

Does this make sense? Does Anyone know anything more about it?

I believe Scotland would have to make a new application and would also be forced to adopt the euro as the rules NOW for joining state that the euro is mandatory.

I'm not sure if its been clarified yet about the EU - certainly one possibility is that Scotland would have to apply to join.

I haven't heard what the thinking is about nationality/passports etc. Presumably Scottish people living in England could apply for a Scottish passport, and there would be some set of rules for it, same as any other country.

English living in Scotland would pay Scottish taxes, Scottish living in England would pay English taxes.

The position of automatic ascension to EU membership is not finalised.

When Scotland gets Independence, Scotland and the remainder of the UK will both be automatically eligible for EU membership, but both countries will need to meet the criteria of the EU.

Both countries will be in the same position of being former members of the EU. And the leftover UK will have no more right to EU membership than Scotland.

If anything, Scotland with the stability of its oil resources and its surplus of electricity generation, will be a stronger candidate for EU membership.

Adoption of the Euro is not an enforced criteria of becoming a member of the EU. Otherwise the UK would be under far more pressure to join from the rest of the EU.

Regarding Scots living in England and English living in Scotland, they will all still be holders of a Commonwealth Passport. They will, as they would in any country they lived in, be required to pay taxes to the Government of the country that they live in. It would be no different to the current situation of any person living and working in any other part of the EU.

There's a good article about this in the Guardian.

Guardian link

Certainly there's much confusion and I think it's fair to say that this isn't a scenario which the EU's ever envisaged. So there's no automatic membership and the most likely situation in my opinion would be that all existing EU members would have to vote upon it and unanimously agree.

Given EU membership is a central plank of the SNP plans, it's certainly something which would need to be cleared up I'd have thought before a vote.

I'd imagine the last thing the Scots wanted was a vote to leave the union then find a tortuous path to EU membership which involves many years isolated.

I thought Salmond was on record saying that he wanted an independent Scotland to remain with sterling? I was reading an article in the Observer this weekend featuring Alistair Darling who rightly pointed out that there would be no point having independence if the currency (and interest rates and spending plans by implication) was controlled by a foreign country i.e. the rest of the UK. That model, after all, is why the Euro is buckling. If joining the EU as an independent state means adopting the Euro that might not find favour with scottish voters given the mess that it is in. And if the option left was to have an independent currency - a Scottish Pound - who in their right mind would invest in it?

It's dull nitty-gritty stuff like this, not the flag-waving button-pushing that Salmond is so good at, that should determine the future.

John Swinney said very clearly on r4 Question Time last week that Scotland would 'keep the pound'. Should be an interesting time for Salmond and co. when the Scots wake up and realise what this actually means. Interest rates set in London and set in the economic interest of the rest of the UK (with no representation from the independent Scotland).

So Elburro, it sounds like from what you say that either they keep the pound and have interest rates set from London anyway or join the EU and have their interest rates set by Germany ECB.

I just don't see many pro's in an independent Scotland.

The irony is that it would not really be independence whilst they are in the same currency as the auld enemy. But what is the alternative to this for an independent Scotland - probably something that is even worse. This is the real debate and it has not yet started - Salmond and co are doing a good job of distracting attention with their nationalistic fervour.

I sent an email to the SNP asking about this, as its so muddled in the press and on tv.

They said that Scotland was already in the EU, and would remain so after independence. They would keep the same opt out for Euro as already agreed by UK.

They said they would keep Sterling, which is not in the Westminster Governments hand to remove. The Bank of England is independent, and the currency is used all over the world. You can't stop anyone from using it.

An independent Scotland would seek permanent representation at the Bank of England. It's in their best interest to set rates which benefit the whole of the monetary union. They finished by telling me that over 67 countries in the world are in monetary unions of the same kind as they're suggesting.

Sterling may be used all over the world but it's the UK government's responsibility to manage it. They may get a seat at the table but I can't see an independent Scotland influencing BofE decisions any more than the Channel Islands, Isle of Man or Tristan da Cunha. When it comes to 'best interests', although the BofE has independent control of interest rates, the rise and fall of sterling is very tied up with the confidence in the economic management displayed in Westminster. If a particular strategy would benefit the English/Welsh/NI economies but not necessarily the Scottish economy, the Westminster MPs will vote according to the wishes of their constituents, not to benefit the people of a foreign country.

The UK Government don't manage Sterling, the independent Bank of England do. Westminster MP's can vote for different economic strategies, but in terms of actual real power over interest rates its the Bank of England.

The original question was - what happens to English people living in Scotland and vice versa, should Scotland separate from the UK. As someone to whom this very much applies, I have yet to find any answers.

The issues of EU membership, Schengen, CTA and the SNP's proposed open-door immigration policy are likely to make this very complicated indeed.

However, I must correct some incorrect assumptions above.

Great Britain was created by the Union of Scotland and England/Wales. Not the UK - it was created when Ireland joined. So Scotland's spearation would mean an end to Great Britain (the political entity though, not the geographical island) but not the UK. Until such time as Northern Ireland were to leave, the UK would still exist - its subtitle may have to be modified to "of England, Wales and Northern Ireland" though.

You need to understand the concept of successor states. What is very clear is that the successor state to the UK would be the UK. This is not in dispute. A good example of successor states would be Russia from the Soviet Union.

Scotland would be a newly-created nation state. New states not only have to apply for EU membership, but have to be accepted by all existing member states. The current UK membership cannot be retained by two states. The current membership of the EU, the UN, NATO, etc would be retained by the successor state.

New member states also have to sign up to the Euro. The reason that this does not apply to the UK is that it has the opt-out, which is not available to new member states.

The EU Treaty and the EU Commission have made this clear, although it contradicts what the SNP has said.

We cannot assume that the rules would be any different just because a) it is "our" country and b) because a domestic political party says so. At the very least the process would require lengthy negotiations. Of course the SNP suggests everything would be automatically continued because they want people to vote in their favour. It simply is not the case in reality, however.

SO, supposing Scotland does negotiate a membership with the EU. The issue of immigration would be extremely complicated, given the UK government's strict immigration control and the SNP's proposed mass-immigration. The UK is in a CTA with Ireland, but not within Schengen. If Scotland were to sign up to Schengen, this would necessitate very strict border controls between Scotland and the UK.

The SNP has proposed some sort of dual nationality but this has not been discussed with the Home Office. In theory it would allow Scots to retain UK citizenship (a benefit, as Scotland would have no embassies and consulates worldwide) while taking the new Scottish passport. In practice, it would only work if it were reciprocated, and a Scottish passport were offered to any English, Welsh or N. Irish who wanted one.

As someone who has lived their entire adult life in England, but was born in Scotland, I do not wish for my place of birth to cause me problems remaining where I live. I certainly do not wish to become a foreigner in my own country and the prospect of long border control queues at Gretna every time I want to take my son to see his grandparents is abhorent.

All the more so for the undeniable fact that this is all completely unneccessary in the current UK.

The second point is the currency. However Scotland were to join the EU - by negotiation or application, it would be obliged to join the Euro. The timescale is not clear and it may be able to wait until the Euro is favourable.

We must not forget that until very recently, the SNP were stating that Scotland must join the Euro because the Pound was a terrible prospect. Nobody can blame them from a U-turn on the Euro under current circumstances, but there is no getting away from the fact that the Pound is the second choice at best. The Bank of England would be its central bank - in a foreign country rather than a domestic one as present, and Scotland would not have any say in the fiscal controls.

At any rate, I must return to the original question. If anyone here has any proper knowledge of constitutional and/or immigration law, it would be very helpful.

People born in Scotland but now living in other parts of the UK - would they be able to retain UK (English/Welsh/N.Irish) citizenship?

People born in England, Wales or Northern Ireland but living in Scotland - would they also have a choice?

An independent Scotland's prospective EU membership would almost certainly be vetoed by Spain (who are rather wary of the Basques). So an independent Scotland would have to be really independent.

For a country with a big economy with critical mass, that seems to me to be a highly desirable state of affairs - they could set their own laws without Eurocrats dictating to them - but given how small an independent Scotland would be, they would in practice be screwed at every turn.

If it can't be in the EU then there will be a mass exodus of jobs and companies from Scotland.