Oh Come All Ye Faithful, Frothy and Triumphant! Oh Come Lefties, Come Ye to anti ConDem-nay-tion!

[KateMiddlet0n]

Fed up of the ConDems robbing the poorest and most vulnerable blind? Sympathetic to the squeezed middle? Have you eyes that can see the horrors that await the dismantling of our welfare state and all that is great and good in UK?

Then you're a frother. This is our safe-space to rally, vent and get organised. You are also welcome if you want to be better informed and/or do something.

#Frothers don't join - #frothers ARE. Check out the blog for information and actions you can take, like us on www.facebook.com/frothers Facebook for bite-sized chunks of frothiness you can read, like and share, or get ye to Twitter and tweet your frustrations using the #frothers hashtag or follow us @TMC_frothers.

Our blog toomanycuts.blogspot.com

Facebook www.facebook.com/frothers

Twitter Twitter.com/tmc_frothers

This is our 4th thread now!

Unless tha libdems also rely on the papers for all their political news instead of reading the documents they're debating I can't see htf they wouldn't know about it!

tewi, I did wonder!

Have posted on MSE in the disability board about this, no doubt it'll be pulled but hopefully a few people will see it at least?

Hello. I'm here. Feeling a bit hung over today and generally useless. Will have a little look at the marvellous stuff you've all been doing.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=49506933&posted=1#post49506933

If anyone is a member and wishes to post in support? I don't think we can link to frothers though or it'll get pulled most likely and it's important it stays there.

I have obviously outed myself on there now when I like to remain under the radar on different forums but this is more important than me having privacy.

Here is what I wrote on Gransnet. No answer from Vince though.

Over on Mumsnet, a group of frustrated women started talking about the cuts and how they were unfairly aimed at the most vulnerable in our society. The more we ranted, the more we realised that we wanted to do something to highlight these injustices. Within a couple of days, we had set up a blog and started writing about the cuts that we find most objectional. www.toomanycuts.blogspot.com

My question is this:

Nick Clegg said yesteray:

History teaches that, at times of deep economic uncertainty, societies become more exposed to the forces of division ? populism, insularity, separatism, an 'us versus them' mentality

Why then are the Lib Dems not doing more to go against the Conservative rhetoric of "benefit scroungers", which according to the LSE and the Guardian has increased in recent times.

The DWP has stated that benefit fraud is estimated at around 0,3% but most respondents of the survey conducted by the LSE think that the rate is 50 - 70%.

Us vs Them at present seems to be those who are not so badly off, against those who are facing benefit cuts and homelessness.

Does Nick Clegg mean what he says, or it is populism? And what will the Lib Dems do to show that he means business, because times are too serious for empty promises.

Gransnet have [cupcakes]

Am not on that forum, Ava but good for you for posting that.

Should we put the Frother's questions to Vince on the blog? Think there were three of us, two of whom got answers.

I wondered about his comment on Scottish uni fees. "The Scottish anomaly is unaffordable and will come to grief"

How come other countries manage to offer free (or very cheap) higher ed then?

at the [cupcakes]

And their flowers are prettier than ours.

[cupcake] [cakes]

testing to see if it works here too.

I think doing a page of questions to Vince on the blog would be a fantastic idea, understand that he only had limited time and probably couldn't elaborate too much on some answers without having lots of info to hand.

He is on twitter and could be linked into it then?

here I could do with a fluffy thread

Namechecked you, Ava.

Yes, will collate the Frother questions and answers, and maybe chuck in a few of the other ones, ones that we have blogged about previously.

He is on Twitter, but hasn't posted since May 10 2010.

Liked the sly link to the chat too, containing links to frtoehrs lol!

Following on from Vince's comment about the Winter Fuel Payment on the Gn webchat...
"I haven't given it back. But I do a lot for charities anyway.

People like me don't need it, but we have to be careful about rushing into more means testing. The system is already complicated enough."

...am getting increasingly frothy about it!

A quick google reveals that 81% of the Lords recieve it, hardly think they are in need!
Plus 73000 ExPat OAPS get a Winter Fuel Payment costing £15.595million - time for a rethink?

Anyone else feeling frothy about this too?

I don't agree with VC saying it's too complicated, they are changing the Child Benefit to means testing when previously given blanketly so why not change this, huge saving to be made.

Am I being very dim about the winter fuel payment? I understand it costs a lot of money to means test it. Fair enough. But could there not be a process that all the people who are automatically sent it now are put on a list and they have to write in to claim the payment?

Surely the money saved would off-set any additional costs? So long as it saved more than it cost that would be ok?

Couldn't The Lords and MP's give their winter fuel payment up voluntarily ?

It's a small thing, but could encourage other wealthy recipients to do the same ?

It could go to a charity eg. for homeless families or to Age Concern or summat ?

Or, even better be means tested like Child benefit will very soon be

Another example of "I'm alright Jack"

Yes, I thought that was odd too.

Why is means testing deemed too expensive for heating allowance - could it be because it is a one off payment, while child allowance is a running cost?

But certainly the MPs and HoL could lead by example and give it back.

Signing up for it gets complicated because a lot of the most elderly people just wouldn't - (think of people with early signs of dementia etc)

OTOH - one of the reasons CB was original universal was to give women an out from domestic violence (which can happen at any incpme level obviously!) - since it is supposed to only be paid into the mother's bank account it could be stashed away and used to escape if necessary.

I don't know if there is another reason like that for universal fuel payments.

I think people who live in Spain for example, who get a winter fuel payment is outrageous. Everyone should have to claim and send in proof of residency, then those who live abroad and the wealthy can not claim it or get it.

I don't really want to see it going to charity because I think there should be more control of where the money is spent and more scrutiny of what it's being spent on and because it perpetuates this Big Society myth that basically sees the civil society picking up the slack because our Welfare State is not up to the job.

It's cost that's given as the reason Te. Means test is too expensive apparently (and to be fair I can see that being the case).

Just a thought but maybe those in receipt of pension tax credit automatically get the payment, everyone else claims it? Maybe not personally but their social worker can on their behalf? Don't all dementia patients have a social worker? (Obviously there might not be any left doing this sort of work either now or in the near future).

The problem with claiming for Winter Fuel Allowance, Katie, is that loads of older people are too proud to claim benefits, or don't understand the forms, or can't fill them in.

I think they worked out in the end it was easier just to send it to everyone rather than let some freeze because they were too proud. It's annoying, though, I agree.

www.saga.co.uk/money/news/help-the-needy-survive-the-cold.aspx

Saga's Winter Fuel Appeal

Fair enough yellowraincoat. Perhaps an opt out then?

Or an easy way to return it to the Treasury?? I don't know. It is just so immoral to take money you don't need.

Even child benefit had to be claimed.