Cap child tax credit after four children, says MP

[SardineQueen]

here

One of nadine's friends!

I'm not surprised to see this from a conservative MP, as ever I think this sort of thing is a terrible idea - children don't choose to be born and by restricting benefits in this way you are punishing the children for something you disapprove of the parents doing. And as I understand it the number of people with no work ever and loads of children is actually very low? So this sort of policy doesn't actually save much money at all. Can't remember where I saw that though.

I am sure there will be some who disagree. I thought that people who post here might be interested anyway.

Yes we do Iggly.
Peopel think that is equally repellant, if not more so.
SAnd please stop playing the poor little kiddies card.
Pathetic and merely reinforces patronising assumption that peopel can't possibly be expected to take charge of theri lives.

If that's the case why aren't MPs calling for such things to change?

And why not pull the poor little kiddies card? When the level of cuts will impact on children more than anyone?

I don't think children can be expected to take charge of their lives, can they.

And on that note, I'm getting an early night. Have fun all

The figure £300 is a rough estimate based on what benefit rates are weekly

So - Child tax = £50 per kid = £200
Income support = £67
Child benefit for 4 kids = roughly £55

So 200 + 67 + 55 = £322

Rent and council tax is paid via housing benefit and council tax benefit. So that £322 has to cover food, clothing, utilities. It's easily done.

The thing is, if you are a lone parent on benefits, the government gives you another £63 per week every time you add another dependant onto what you already have. The current system does incentivise a large family.

'When the level of cuts will impact on children more than anyone?'

How exactly?

Cuts to child benefit, tax credits, sure start centres, maternity grants... Children will be directly and indirectly affected and they can't do anything about it. And let's not get into unemployment figures.

Not all children - it will be poorer children.

We're talking about no additional benefits after having four children, not cutting them altogether.

I agree with colditz, moondog and niceguy.

Child benefit.
Why should we all pay to support other people's kids?
Sure Start. Hugely ineffective and used largely by people who don't need those resources.
Maternity grants. Complete joke

Tax credit
What sort of insanity is it where tax payers have to prop people up even if they do work?

Why should we pay taxes at all?

The welfare state is there as a safety net. Should we only provide a safety net to those that deserve it? Who decides that?

well maybe the minimum wage should rise significantly.......

after all for some people (usually portrayed by the media as those with lots of children) are better off not working.

that can't be right surely?

DH used to work with a man who used to say "when this ones born I can retire" he was early twenties. It was number 4.

And he did give up work, his dp never worked outside the home.

I agree with what iggly said.

It is a sad fact of life that some adults don't/won't/can't take responsibility for their children. I have contact with some of those parents and I would hate to be one of their children. Let us not reduce their circumstances any further.
There are plenty who should be made to stop their tax dodging and plug this gap in society ten times over.

I think plenty can be done to reduce the admin costs of the welfare state- universality is the main thing really, which is why CB is so cheap to administer compared the tax credit madness.
But some people cannot bear the idea of underserving sorts getting their taxes. Yet don't bat an eyelid at pensioners getting winter fuel payments - when some of those would have been undeserving before they hit retirement age.

I think plenty can be done to reduce the admin costs of the welfare state- universality is the main thing really, which is why CB is so cheap to administer compared the tax credit madness.
But some people cannot bear the idea of underserving sorts getting their taxes. Yet don't bat an eyelid at pensioners getting winter fuel payments - when some of those would have been undeserving before they hit retirement age.

I'm now going to go to bed! Otherwise I won't sleep for

You love telling us who gets cross or angry about certain issues don't you Iggly?
All nicely worked out in your little plan.

WTF does that means Moondog? How does Iggly know who gets angry about what, or have you been drinking my wine?

'But some people cannot bear the idea of underserving sorts getting their taxes. Yet don't bat an eyelid at pensioners getting winter fuel payments'

'Yet we don't bat an eyelid at the government selling the best boys of northern rock and keeping the toxic debt. Or the proposals to cut the taxes for the super rich, as if they need more handouts. Or the fact that rich pensioners get a winter fuel allowance - no means testing there.'

I never MN drunk.
Very bad idea.
I wouldn't be able to operate the keyboard in any case.

I think Iggly is making a point about what the frothers from the Daily Nazi get annoyed about (undeserving getting their taxes) and what they overlook (tax dodgers) rather than everyone, hence the "some people".

I must not be as pissed as I though I was. .

What do those on here who think that benefits should be paid to allow the poor to have unlimited children feel about the ending of child benefit for the 'wealthy' (excuse me while I split my sides) - I assume you're all v against it as it's the only support those parents will get for those children. There's certainly no way most on 40K could afford 4 kids - despite supposedly being 'rich'. There is something rotten in the state of Denmark England if only the 'poor' and the v rich can afford 4= kids.

I am not sure that anyone on here thinks that benefits should be paid to allow the poor to have unlimited children . I haven't seen anyone advocate that on this thread, however, I have seen the phrase "safety net" mentioned more than once.

Two different things B&B.

As we know, a benefits system will be abused but it was set up to help genuine people who genuinely don't have another option. We can't handpick which families deserve it more than others.

We have to be grateful that we live in a democratic society and we choose our leaders and don't suffer under the reign of Tyrants. We pay our taxes and we may not like where they go, but that's life.

We can't "cap" the quantity of children people have, we could force people to work but where are the jobs for uneducated individuals? We have to look after the poor, it's the morally correct thing to do, we weren't all born lucky and have parents who led us in the right direction, helped us get the correct education. Some people just don't know any better. But to some on MN they are the underclass. Makes me feel queasy.

By the way I am none of the above, I'm educated and from a well educated family and don't live off benefits but what I do know is that when DH's business collapsed as a result of the bankers fuck ups, we had to claim Tax Credits to feed our children. I loathe anyone who would defiantly stand up and decide that to take that safety net away from families who have no other choice just because of the few that abuse it.

"it was set up to help genuine people who genuinely don't have another option"

When the forerunner of CB was introduced, it was set up only for second and subsequent children. Are you advocating a return to that?

i guess it depends how many children the government want people to have. With the former cb option obviously they were encouraging people to have more, but now i think larger families are discouraged - unless you are rich!

I'm not a politician, I have no idea how to change the benefits system, likewise the majority on here don't. Its too complex and ultimately, benefits are for children and we can't sift the good parents from the bad.

The comment re who pays people working tax credits when they work is the one that got my goat. Tax credits are a subsidiary for people on LOW INCOME. Yet again MN members are under the impression that we're all on six figure salaries.