Parents meet-up at St Pauls/Occupy London?

[zelda200]

Hello all - would anyone be interested in meeting up at St Pauls on Wednesday 26th under a parents-for-change sort of banner?

I went to the start of the protest on Sat 15th (with my two kids, 3.5 and 1.5), and was struck by the need for more so-called ordinary people to be there, as otherwise it might get dismissed as just the "usual suspects" (far-left agitators etc). I think just from talking around that a lot of parents think this is important for our kids' future. I would like to take a stand against the growing inequality in this country.

Anyone interested in meeting?

Thanks

Ah well if "the radio" said it must be true!

This thread has turned into an attempt to put off any openminded MNters from going along tomorrow with OP. How suspect.

glasnost, it's the easiest thing in the world to dismiss people who don't hold exactly the same viewpoint as you as 'rightwing knee jerkers'. It seems it's rather harder for you to accept that others can hold different views on a very specific point & discuss it properly with them.

This thread has people putting opinions forward. I was unaware you could only post opinions that went with what the op thinks.

I assume you can provide some evidence to counter everything that suggests most aren't sleeping there?

You are quite remarkably closed-minded I'm afraid glasnost.

"An attempt to put off any openminded MNters from going along tomorrow with OP. How suspect."

How insulting. There are many posts putting across reasonable viewpoints on here. No-one is trying to stop others from going; they're perfectly free to do so. How on earth would anyone know if MNers went in real-life or not? It's their prerogative. Why can't you engage with this discussion properly?

Well, as Glastnost is refusing to believe an on-the-record statement by Spyro Van Leemnen, the Occupy London spokesperson, I'm not sure what will be considered convincing.

There is some minor quibbling about the numbers of empty tents, but that a proportion are empty is acknowledged to a standard I'm happy with.

Oh yeah that'll be right bobthebuilder. Anything glasnost says is, apparently, insulting. There must be an echo in here. The Occupation is an attempt to do something, anything, in an age where people are disenfranchised and politics as representation is obsolete.

To target these protesters as the problem is doublethink and disingenuous.

From my office -Definitely more than 20 tents/people there- its packed. Not sure about the health and safety issue I had thought it was more the loss of tourist revenue that was worrying St Paul's.

Anyway I wouldn't join even if i could leave work- I have no idea what they are trying to acheive/what are their "demands" - if the bankers/city gave in and said we concede what would the protesters have them (us) do? Surely they should protest to the institutions that could change things unilaterally - eg the Bank of England, FSA or Government

Christian solidarity with #OccupyLondon
Posted on October 24, 2011 by occupylsx
68
The Occupy London faith outreach working group have recieved a message of support from Christian groups.

If you or your group wish to give support, please email [email protected] or leave your details below.

Christian solidarity with the ?Occupy London? movement

As Christians, we stand alongside people of all religions and none who are resisting economic injustice with active nonviolence. We offer our greetings to people engaged in occupations of financial centres throughout the world.

We seek to witness to the love and justice of God, proclaimed by Jesus Christ. Jesus said that he had come to ?set free the oppressed?. His gospel is good news for all people. It is a challenge to all structures, systems, practices and attitudes that lead people to exploit and oppress their fellow human beings.

The global economic system divides people one from another and separates humanity from creation. It perpetuates the wealth of the few at the expense of the many. It fuels violence and environmental destruction. It is based on idolatrous subservience to markets. We cannot worship both God and money.

We are inspired by Jesus, who protested against exploitative traders and moneychangers in the Jerusalem Temple. Christianity began as a grassroots protest movement. Nonviolent direct action can play an important and ethical role in resisting injustice and achieving change.

We stand in solidarity with the ?Occupy London? movement and regret that they have not been able to make their protest closer to the London Stock Exchange. We applaud their commitment to co-operating with St Paul?s Cathedral and to ensuring that their camp is safe for everyone in the vicinity. We were pleased by the cathedral?s initial welcome to the camp and hope that difficulties between the occupiers and the cathedral can be speedily resolved, keeping the focus on the need to challenge the financial injustices perpetuated by the City of London.

St. Paul's put on alot of corporate events and have even played host to arms companies.

Sigh... Okay, if it needs spelling out:

1. I/other posters are not targeting the protest/protesters as an homogenous whole. The issue being debated here is with the specific location they are choosing to remain in & the effect they're having on an entity that specifically WASN'T their chosen target

1. 'anything' you say? No, simply your refusal to engage properly in discussion & throw ad hominem attacks

1. Offering responses to a specific question on a discussion board does not make anyone whose opinion differs from yours to the slightest degree does not make them sheeple, right-wing kneejerkers or any other of the phrases you use. The OP seems to understand this just fine. Why can't you?

Oh and it's not bobthebuilder

"Definitely more than 20 tents/people there"

Nobody's disputing that. But the 200 tents stay up, but they are not all occupied at night. Occupy London's spokesperson has confirmed this.

1. Entirely the 'Christian groups' (any specifics?) prerogative. They are entirely entitled to their opinion, no problem.

1. I don't agree with cathedrals hosting arms companies (this is back in 1997 I presume?). That's wrong, but it doesn't change my opinion about this specific incident 15 years down the line.

See? It can be done. And I can discuss it without attacking the protest movement as a whole. Can you do the same from your end?

"Sheeple has my copywrite on it bob. Good to see you read my posts if so au fait with my terms.

Hope you read the statement from the Christian groups in support of the protest.

Well you won't be going then bob? Pity.

Well, as it was a Christian group (the clergy of St Pauls) who stopped the police from preventing their encampment, I don't think there's much to add to Christian support - even when it is seriously endangering their ability to look after the actual building (by cutting of revenue).

I think that speaks volumes about the Church.

Sadly, it also does about the protestors. The only organisation they are making any impact on is this Cathedral - without whose intervention they would never have established camp anywhere. They have a alternative site now. If they stay and continue to harm St Pauls, I can only assume that, regardless of the stance of Christians towards them, the campers there are more concerned with harming the Church than any other target.

Good Luck OP if you are going tomorrow,wish we could,but cannot. nteresting that the City of London gave 40 mill to St.Pauls.I was sure that the church invested in stock market[maybe they have seen their shares take a dive]

Already said so at the beginning of the thread (politely & without attacks. I guess you didn't read them properly). You won't be engaging in any proper discussion then? Pity.

Doobydoo, the 40 million was for the stonework I think? The cathedral has no public funding remember. If it did I daresay complaints would be made about the use of taxpayers' money...And it is in the City of London after all.

...but 40 mill

How much d'you reckon it costs to renovate 300 year old stonework on a massive building? I've just seen the top level figure bandied about, not seen specifics about its source. Need to look it up...

Link to St Paul's accounts. When you say "the City" - who exactly do you mean?

Like many other historic buildings, the Cathedral does have corporate backers, but it also enjoys additional support (beyond the norm for similar edifices elsewhere) via the Livery Companies.

BTW: £40m is the cost of one recent renovation/maintenance project. They usually have two or three on the go at a time, plus the need for day to day running.

Aside from not being in London I would not be inclined attend as

• it is not clear what the protesters are trying to achieve
• it does seem that they are "protesters lite" if it is true that they are tucked up in warm beds at night rather than the tents - and if those that are there are enjoying a nice lie in if the Times is to be believed...

• I don't support the impact they have had/are having on St Pauls

Not a protest I'd want to associate myself with

oh, and if it wasn't for the St Paul's point which has really annoyed me I'd be inclined to snigger. FFS what is this about (from the OLSX article in the Guardian on Sunday):

"Working at OccupyLSX is the most exciting and engaging thing we've ever done, but we can see that some of what we're doing seems unclear from the outside. Not having a set programme for people to "buy into" is deliberate ? we're choosing a different way of going about things. Our response to systemic failure is not to propose a new system, but to start making one. We're in the business of defining process, and specific demands will evolve from this in time.

Insofar as there is an overall organisation at OccupyLSX, this is the way it works. The general assembly, which meets every day at 1pm and 7pm, is made up of all those on site and whoever else would like to come and join us. Proposals are put to the assembly, and we discuss them until we come to agreement.

There tends not to be a vote to arbitrate between conflicting views (although we have a convention in London that a 75% majority carries a proposal when the matter is urgent). This can sometimes mean decisions take a long time, but when they are made they have everyone's support. In a political climate where voting in parliamentary elections continues to fall and governments have a marginal mandate ? if they have one at all ? this is a revolutionary change in the way people take decisions about the way they want to organise themselves."

Interestingly bread@ 23:35, my friend is a vicar and so is her husband, and they support Occupy.

Agree with Goosey, completely.

What these people need is

a) to have a clear point
b) make it somewhere relevant
c) understand those who play the long game can lose as well as win

Just pitching a More Equal Society Camp outside a church - phuurrrrrllleeeease! The people with the time to do this are making a point about themselves, and they're making it to the media. And most people think they're knobs for getting in the way of good wedding goers/church goers/tourists going about their business.