UK PENSIONERS. A BURDEN ON THE STATE.

[ivanhoe]

It is clear that many of you on this site believe that the UK's elderly people are a burden on the State.

So, what you anti- elderly people are doing is descriminating against basically the old in our society, and our country.

You are saying that our elderly people are unaffordable.

That they must endure a low State pension and means tested handouts.

And while you are descrimating against our elderly people, you are full of yourselves to the point of banality.

I read somewhere recently on the internet, that the people living in the 30's and 40's were more mature and sophisticated than the people living today.

This I can believe.

I agree with Jinx! Absolish the universal bus pass and winter fuel allowance. I have a boomer mate, 60 in February and fit as a fiddle, who is ever gloating about these, on her husband's £26K/annum final salary pension (he will get more once he draws his state one), no mortgage and using the fuel allowance to go on a 5-star mini break whilst I sell things on Ebay to keep my young children warm and you expect sympathy?

She boasts, oh his pension is guaranteed. Does she really think my husband and I, and all our generation, and our children, will slave to pay such a fat pension to someone with no housing costs when the depression that will come arrives and we were are semi-starving and our children go without so she can go on holiday and gloat on Facebook about how she doesn't have to work?

People live longer, they should expect to work longer. 'Pension' was only supposed to be 5 years or so or less and then you died, not live for 20-30+ years playing golf whilst those but 20 years younger toil on knowing they will die standing at their work!

You think that's mean? You've probably never lived in a place where food is scarce.

Abolish all these wastes of money!

But they won't. Because they have boomers voting in governments who think we should pay for them to have a 20+ holiday whilst we know we will drop dead working. And we are not fools. And we are getting very very angry about it all.

The anti elderly ...One day you will be old - I hope you don't starve or freeze in the winter as so many do.

It is not anti-elderly to be of the opinion that 'retirement' should not be 20-30+ years long as standard.

Because it is becoming patently obvious that no economy can sustain such a model as people live longer and longer. They will have to work longer for less pension, use savings, have a lower standard of living. Just like all the rest of us!

Frankly unless you are loaded I can;t see why everyone isn't scared of being old and on a low income and potentially dependent on private sector carers that may or may not turn up to look after you.... In our society unless you have some economic worth you are not valued and sadly for me ( who is not going to be loaded in retirement ) that may be the case. In the mean time I will enjoy it as best I can . I come into contact with older people who on a regular basis who are dependent on others and all I can say is someone will need to help us all when we get there...l

Readers interested in this thread might like to see what pensioners are saying and doing themselves. Try the Saga website.

Rather than just making a noise, they are campaigning about the winter fuel allowance calling on those who don't need it to donate it, into their "recycling" fund, which will then help those in greater need. A small, but practical and laudable step, and one which is much more useful than criticism without an alternative programnme.

If you have elderly relatives who might feel themselves to be in a position to give up their allowance, do send the link on to them.

I did NOT vote this government in and I am furious at the attack on young poor families,single mums etc but all pensioners are not well off. A lot of our friends are in our situation DH and I are 65 & 68 and will have £13000 pa. We still have 2 DC's 6 & 13 (don't ask) at home and we will find it hard yes we still get CTC but no wonderful holidays for us. The winter fuel allowance is very much needed.

Cold kills 180 British pensioners a day during winter

Please go to this link and sign this petition on the Government's web site.

epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19311

All elderly people should receive residential care free, via the State, and a much higher basic State pension free of means testing

Responsible department: Department for Work and Pensions

The Government must fund elderly people's rights to free residential Care paid for by the State because our elderly people have paid into the system all their working lives, and Government must also pay all pensioners now and in the future, a much higher basic state pension by restoring the National Insurance Act born of a Labour Government in 1974 which linked increases in the State pension to male average earnings, or The Retail Price Index ( RPI), whichever the greater. In 1975, the then Labour Government passed the "Social Security Act", introducing a State Earnings Related Pensions Scheme, this was considered in the pensions industry, the most cost effective scheme ever.

Sign this petition, please.

Since the 80's, Thatcher has made UK pensioners a burden on the State, as charity cases, even though our elderly people have spent a working life paying taxes and NI contrbutions.

I regard this idea of richer pensioners giving their winter fuel payment to poorer pensioners as an abomination, it is a disgrace.

Because what is needed is a Universial asnd substantial increase in the basic State pension, because rich or poor, all pensioners have paid their contributions when working, or if theu havent been working, they have been raising their children, this is contribution enough.

When the Old Age Pension was set up, it was never intended to be the solo means of support for a pensioner. It was only ever meant to be a safety net. It was expected that a working person would make provisions for their own retirement.

I don't have a problem of increasing the state pension. One question though. Where will the money come from?

niceguy, So you have a problem, otherwise you wouldnt have asked that question. You dont really care, have the guts to admit it.

////When the Old Age Pension was set up, it was never intended to be the solo means of support for a pensioner. It was only ever meant to be a safety net. It was expected that a working person would make provisions for their own retirement.////

Rubbish, todays pensioners were promised care from the cradle to the grave.

And this is what they should be receiving, in full.

Not really. You tell me where the money comes from and I'll be happy to support increasing the state pension.

It's a simple question.

Promised a safety net. That's all. The finances were never there for everyone to get 100% of their living expenses for a comfortable life.

Shall we throw some figures in here?

"Pension Credit:

The Guarantee Credit works by topping up your weekly income to:

£137.35 if you are single 
£209.70 if you have a partner

These amounts may be more if you are disabled, have caring responsibilities or certain housing costs, such as mortgage interest payments."

Additional 'Savings Credit' (£20-30 pw) available if you have savings or a second pension (this seems to make no sense, but that's what the DWP website says)

Also entitled to Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit.

That's it Boulevard, that's it, means test means test, means test, fairness in housing and taxation has been thrown out, unfairness and subserviance is what it's all about.

And our state pensions and system are a national disgrace.

amerryscott. You have the insight of scrooge, and I mean that.

niceguy2. Another scrooge on this site, frightened his taxes might have to increase to help the poor.

To all you anti pensioners on here, who also favour continued means testing for humilating State handouts. I have this to add.

"Are there no prisons ?, are there no workhouses" ?

Rose, here are some factson winter deaths among the elderly.

Nine elderly people died every hour from cold-related illnesses last winter against a background of soaring energy bills.
Official figures show the number of deaths linked to cold over the four-month period reached

25,400 in England and Wales, plus 2,760 in Scotland.

Charities and energy company critics claim the UK has the highest winter death rate in northern Europe, even worse than much colder countries such as Finland and Sweden.

Winter worries: More than 300,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997

The majority of people on this site believe everything they are told by our media and the political parties, and that's a fact.

I would like to know how much money we send to uphold third world countries, and fight foreign wars, all in the name of "Great" Britain ?, what a bloody farce we are."

Why the attacks, Ivanhoe?

Is this your debate style? I don't think you are winning anyone over to your views.

I don't know how saying the truth that the pension was never designed to be a replacement income, but a safety net, gives me the insight of Scrooge. I don't think Scrooge or Dickens were around when this type of pension was conceived.

I never said I wasn't willing to pay more taxes to increase pensions. You are just assuming I don't want to. I'm just asking how much? Let me know what your proposal is for a fair pension and then we can see can't we?

You say you would like to see a 'much higher basic state pension...' Something I am not opposed to and if affordable I'd love to see. How much will it cost? A fair question I think? After all, I go into a shop to buy something, I look at the price before I buy. If I am paying for my gas/electricity, the companies send me a bill first so I know how much to pay.

Surely knowing how much something would cost before implementing it is just plain common sense?

Did you know that means testing pensioners on their pittance, is costing 15 to 20 times more in beaurocratic form filling, than it would cost to restore the State pensions link with male average earnings. ?