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The country will suffer as the Tories go back to their roots and cut investment.

22 replies

ivanhoe · 19/08/2011 15:58

'TRADITIONAL' Labour were the party of higher income tax on the working pubic, so one thing is unavoidably correct and that is true Labour governments of the past have been tax-and-spend governments, but after Thatcher and the rest of the Tories coined that 'tax-and-spend' mantra, for a time Labour became un-electable.

Tony Blair made Labour ? under the guise of New Labour ? electable again by dragging the party over to the right wing.

Both Blair and Gordon Brown then proceeded to continue to tax and spend by redesigning the taxation base away from direct taxation and on to stealth taxation. After a while even this kind of taxation became not enough to finance all of the policies that they wanted to finance and that was when the borrow to spend policies got out of hand.

Whereas Margaret Thatcher's era began the underfunding of our vital services based on the Tory ethos of low income on the general public, and trickled down economic investment into our vital services.

Unfortunately Tony Blair and Gordon Brown literally wasted their 13 years in Government by keeping to the right-wing low income tax agenda of the Thatcher era, but they did invest more money into our vital services, and it is this investment that has helped rack up the deficit that Cameron and the Tories want to cut.

This deficit now gives the Tory leader a chance to go back to Tory roots and slash investment en masse, jobs will be lost and unemployment will soar as it did in the 80s and 90s, because all the cuts being announced now, are just a small per cent of the whole £160billion, there are five years to go before the next general election, so there is much more insecurity and uncertainty to come for the ordinary British public.

I have been criticised by people for constantly mentioning Margaret Thatcher, refering to "the Thatcher era".

I make no apologies for this, because everything pursued by the former New Labour Government was initiated by Margaret Thatcher, because New Labour ditched their own core policies of fairness and equality when they came to power in 1997, in favour of Margaret Thatcher's low income tax deregulated, free market policies resulting in a mammoth rich and poor devide, that unfortunately New Labour made wider.

Now the Tories are back with a vengeance, to cut New Labour's built up deficit, hoping the public will back them, yet the public benefited in many ways under New Labour because New Labour would not increase income tax through their 13 years in office to do the things they wanted to do, they had a long term plan to reduce the deficit, while also protecting front line services and jobs.

The people of this country who voted Tory at the recent general election, again in my view, clearly had no idea what they were really doing, now they, their friends, families, and children, will suffer the consequences in one way or another over the next five years, and maybe longer if there is no effective political opposition.

The suffering hasn't even begun yet ? a lot of tears will fall in the next few years as hundreds of thousands, if not millions, are thrown on the scrapheap and sacrificed on the altar of Tory political dogma, while the Lib-Dems will most likely be swallowed up, while losing millions of their supporters

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/08/2011 17:05

You realise that the UK economy does not operate in glorious isolation? You'll have seen the turmoil in the Eurozone countries and the USA as every single developed Western country faces up to the realisation that they are writing cheques they can't cash?

Yes, it's going to be tough short-term as spending has to change. Yes, we are suffering the consequences of Labour failing to make the most of the boom years to cushion the inevitable slump. But if the Tories didn't rein in the spending voluntarily, we'd be under pressure internationally demanding they did it under duress. Like the US... like Italy... like Ireland.... like everywhere else... and it would be a much harder pill to swallow. Some say 'dogma' but at least we have direction.

ivanhoe · 19/08/2011 18:45

Yes a direction back to the work house.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/08/2011 19:27

The world economy changed radically in 2008 and all of us in the developed world are just about catching up with what that means in practice. But to say millions will be thrown on the scrapheap is incredibly pessimistic, not to say premature. This isn't the late seventies when the country was crippled by decades of wasting money on industries well past their sell-by-date, held to ransom by strikes and so obsessed with the past that we failed to adapt for the future. We may be battered at the moment but the fundamentals are in place to take advantage of any upturn. Labour didn't - indeed don't - have a 'long term plan to reduce the deficit. They have a lot of hot-air plus a guaranteed appointment with IMF kicking them up the arse for continuing to spend money they didn't have.

K999 · 19/08/2011 19:32

To be honest the cuts have barely started.....

Thankfully I didn't vote Tory and got the government I voted for...the SNP!

LoveMyGirls · 19/08/2011 19:40

I am not going to pretend to be bright enough to understand the whys and wherefores but what I do know is that the world is a scary place right now. Everything costs a fortune, basics like food, petrol, housing, gas & elec etc - has it always felt like this or is it because I am almost 30 and this is the first time I've ever realised how badly shit can shit the fan? I' concerned for my dd's future, for our jobs, where we will live etc.

It's not a nice feeling at all Sad and yes I blame the tories and those who voted for them because before they got into power it doesn't feel so bad.

LoveMyGirls · 19/08/2011 19:41

Er sorry about my typo's I'm on the Wine

CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/08/2011 20:11

Lovemygirls... believe it or not this is normal. You're exactly the right age not to remember the last downturn of the mid nineties. Interest rates were in the teens, house-prices dropped through the floor and it was a really miserable time for a lot of people trying to combat negative equity or suddenly facing massive hikes in mortgage payments... amongst other things.

Prior to that it was mid-seventies. I remember going shopping as a kid and a can of beans would have three or four price-stickers in a stack on the top... slightly higher price each time because the can had been on the shelf for a day or two and the prices had gone up. I would also go scouting with my Dad for a petrol station that hadn't put its prices up and ending up in massive queues of people doing the same thing. I remember my mum ringing round different oil companies trying to find ine that wouldn't charge her double for a tank of central heating fuel.

The first 10 years of the decade was a boom-time paid for by credit and revenue from the now maligned financial sector. Of course it felt good :) .... but the government forgot to plan ahead for the inevitable downturn and individuals got used to spending up to the wire and forgot to save for a rainy day. "After the carnival comes the dustcart..."

LoveMyGirls · 19/08/2011 20:24

Thanks Cogito you have made me feel a bit better, so we just need to ride this storm out? We haven't brought a house yet which I feel grateful for right now tbh. But we are trying to pay our debts off as quickly as we can and to be much more sensible with money and teach our dd's that money does not grow on tree's!

niceguy2 · 19/08/2011 20:36

LoveMyGirls...believe it or not we're actually faring well in the UK when you look at the size of our deficit and how other comparable countries have coped.

Our deficit ranked us alongside Ireland, Portugal, Greece etc. In fact, shortly before the election, our deficit was actually in percentage terms larger than Greece's. Our only saving grace has been the fact we never joined the Euro so we can set our own interest rates and other measures like printing money.

My DP comes from an EU ascension country and trust me they had/have it way worse. 25% unemployment. Virtually everyone had to take pay cuts, sometimes up to 50%.

What people don't realise is that with every boom comes a bust. The bigger the boom, the bigger the bust. It doesn't matter what the trigger is, it's just as plain as night following day.

niceguy2 · 19/08/2011 20:41

Ivanhoe, actually most of your post I think isn't bad. I agree that Thatcherite policies have by and large continued under new Labour. But in that case you'd have to accept that many other western economies adopted similar policies.

New Labour's election was really a triumph of marketing over substance. If you look at what Tony Blair did, he basically turned Labour into a marketing machine. It was all things to all people.

The rich could be safe in the knowledge they wouldn't be taxed to hell. The poor could be safe in the knowledge that Labour would spend billions on services. In short, the old Labour mantra of "Tax & Spend" became "Spend".

Being unable to raise taxes on the rich to fund the promised public services they simply borrowed. Easy when times are good but of course now things are bad, their decision looks a bit stupid.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/08/2011 20:41

Things always pick up eventually. In the meantime, you'll find you are much more resourceful and stronger than you may think :) And yes, the main thing you take away from this kind of situation is experience. My parents' experience of tough times in the seventies stuck with me as did my own experience of redundancy and tough times in the nineties. Not saying I'm sailing through the latest downturn totally unaffected... but I think I was better prepared for having been there before. Next time there's a crisis, you'll be better prepared having experienced this one. And if you teach your DDs well, so will they be. Life's like that.

aquashiv · 19/08/2011 20:43

Nice guy you amaze me how you can spin story to suit the situation? Are you a politician per chance?

LoveMyGirls · 19/08/2011 20:58

I will bear that in mind, thanks, in some ways I do think it will do my dd's a favour because they will have to learn how to economise but for us as a family/ couple it makes me sad because we have worked so hard to get our feet and it's like walking in quicksand tbh.

We will get there, this only makes me more determined.

I was 17 when I had dd1 and I lived on far less then we live on now so I'm sure we will cope, I was only worried because I didn't remember the 80's riots and I was worried things would get worse than they ever had been and I wouldn't be able to feed/ house my family.

I do feel better now so thank you Smile

niceguy2 · 19/08/2011 21:09

Thanks Aqua. I use the same company as New Labour used to for public relations! Grin

ivanhoe · 20/08/2011 00:09

The world economy has nothing to do with it.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/08/2011 00:38

The world economy has everything to do with it. It's for individual governments to decide how to respond to the changes happening at global level, and each will make different decisions according to their vision of the future for their country. But no national government operates in a vacuum.

ivanhoe · 20/08/2011 10:17

The Tories under Thatcher were soley responsible for creating over 3 million unemployed during the 80s.

Cameron is continuation where Thatcher left off, and he is using the Deficit to achieve this, with abolutely no opposition.

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ivanhoe · 20/08/2011 12:26

The world economy has nothing to do with it.

Thatcherism in Britain since the 80's has messed Britain up morally, Socially, and economically.

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K999 · 20/08/2011 14:26

Agreed that Thatcher caused a lot of problems but the current situation is affected by the world economy. It's a global problem.

Scaevola · 20/08/2011 14:34

Thatcher resigned in the early 1990s. There has been more than enough opportunity to change since then

Handwringing over events of two decades ago isn't going to help now.

ivanhoe · 20/08/2011 18:20

K999, No it isnt. The free market which has been with us since the 80's, is the reason for all of Britain's problems today.

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ivanhoe · 20/08/2011 18:22

Thatcher is still with us in policy making.

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