Free funding for 3 year olds; is the 15 hours going the 'entitled to but good luck finding some' way of NHS dentists

[KatyMac]

This is a (mis) quote from a thread on MN this week.

But it could be true; everyone is entitled to a NHS dentist but they are quite rare.

The low amounts that nurseries are being paid for 3yo funding is ridiculously low in a lot of areas; if a 'private' space costs £5-8 an hour and a funded space is being paid at £3-5 Nurseries will simply stop providing these places.

Already nurseries in my area have closed due to this issue; in addition the children's centres round here are about to reach the end of their subsidies.

I can't see anyone 'fixing' childcare in the near future; are there any ways that the future of childcare can be secured as realistically it's not looking good.

If you were in charge how would you deal with the issue?

I would make it a long-term objective for all primary schools to offer a pre-school nursery class for children aged 3+. Some do already but it is patchy. I say long-term because it may not be possible, under the funding constraints applicable today, to make the change immediately. But as a long-term goal I would expect Education Authorities to have a plan for implementation

So, that is long-term expensive state provision

They have always avoided this in the past

Remove all free places for under 4s. Anyone truly in need of a free place should be able to apply for subsidies/vouchers towards the cost. I have no idea how pre-schools provide good quality care any more unless their staff are paid well below the minimum wage.

I would have though that using existing premises and/or extending premises and recruiting/vetting staff via the usual LEA routes would not be as expensive as some of the alternatives. Maybe some schools aren't suitable but many will be. My own DS went to a local primary school nursery morning session for one year and it seemed a very good facility. We still had to use a paid childminder for afternoons.

Sorry I meant that the state would pay rather than the parent

I think the only way it can work is to raise what the state pays for the 15hrs to a reasonable rate (set locally).

Do you think? It used to be higher for nurseries & lower for childminders; at least it is equal now (although too low)

This problem was entirely foreseen.

The changes to the provision were meant to roll out in April 2010, but the then administration delayed it by a year as so many people were not ready for roll-out. Even with that extra time, it's a right royal mess.

I hope this Govt (who won't be wedded to the new system as it wasn't of their making) will take a fresh look at it, and soon. Preferably before many nurseries find they have no option but to quit the scheme.

Nurseries are closing here already

I agree with that statement. My son was denied a place at our closest local pre-school despite us only living 133metres away. So there only option for us is to find him a private place - a lot of the private nurseries are opting out. We're in North London - half a day at a private preschool nursery costs £45 a session.

We used the voucher towards nursery at a private school and paid the rest in fees. I think the rules have now been changed to stop private school nurseries using the scheme.

I would not object to this if there were enough state run nurseries to provide nursery education for all children in the year beore school but there aren't. However the government is foolishly giving money for 2 yr old nursery places in some areas.

I think it would be better if they went back to offering nursery vouchers for so many hours a week to all children in the year before school. If there is not enough state provision in a particular area the vouchers should be able to be used at private nurseries.

I heard today about another after school club closing it's all interconnected

Why is it foolish to provide funding for 2 year olds Jojocat?

notsoqueen - why is it necessary to provide funding for 2 year olds to be educated at all?

Particularly when there aren't even enough nursery places for all 3 and 4 year olds and the nation is short of money.

ok, fair enough.

I have to disagree with your statement about it being foolish. Funding for two year olds was introduced to enable those children who come from disadvantaged homes/families to attend pre-school for 9 or 10 hours depending on which type of funding the family was eligible for. These children come from disadvantaged neighbourhoods, they may have some kind of need, they may come from families that have intervention from a social worker or other outside agency.

I don't think that the emphasis is on 'educating' but more on enabling these children access to play with other children, enabling their parents opportunities (albeit limited) to access training towards gaining qualifications or access to employment without the worry of finding childcare costs.

The reason there aren't enough nursery places for 3 and 4 year olds is quite rightly as Katymac suggests down to the funding that is in place for them. Sessions around here cost between £8 and £10 per session. The funding here doesn't even pay for half of that hence provision is being withdrawn on account of being unsustainable.

Yes the nation is short of money, but there is research to suggest that those children who receive some kind of early years experience in a setting go on to do better at school and then later on in life. These children are the future of this country and I think they are being overlooked too quickly in favour of other things.

But 2 year old places do cost more

and rightly so IMO when you consider the extra staff needed to cover the smaller ratio, when you consider the needs of two year old children against those aged 3 and 4 etc

Oh absolutely

I run at 1:3 or 1:4.....I can't imagine 1:8

I'm really concerned about childcare for the future

i'm with you on that one!

& I think 1:13 is downright scarey

tbh, I'm not holding out too much hope for EYPs and the 1:13 ratio. I think its only a matter of time before its scrapped which is massively unfortunate for the children, their families and those practitioners who are working towards it. Without EYPS, how many practitioners would seriously consider gaining a degree in early years unless they intended to be teachers?

Well I am doing business hoping to EYP when I've finished......

The government reckon every setting must have a degree qualified member of staff by 2015......so I am studying; it looks like they are changing their minds

I am degree qualified and doing EYPS. I find EYPS a total waste of time and effort tbh. It's very good for reflective practice but there is very little recongition round here for having it which is a shame. If the govt were so keen to go with the higher qualified idea, why not make it an actual qualification rather than a status that will be scrapped anyway?

It's been a long day lol, I know what I'm getting at

I think childminding settings are the way to go; I just need some money so I can prove it

Would they then not become nurseries?