I'm at a loss - why are the LD's being punished and who is voting Tory?

[smashingtime]

It feels to me as though the LD's are being punished for the Coalition but really it is mostly Tory policies which are in the process of ruining the country. The Tories haven't done badly in these elections so are most people really unaffected by cuts or is it the grey vote that is making the difference?

I really agree with you. Always voted Labour, probably always will but its as though no one on the left can be bothered to face up to the Conservatives and have a proper debate.

Labour would have jumped into bed with the Liberals if they could and the Tories would be moaning at the the LD for abandoning their policies.

Fact is.....none of them deliever on their policies because all 3 parties are dishonest about what needs to happen. They dare not speak honestly to electorte because they talk in sound bites thinking the public can't understand a complex/proper philosophical/political discussion.

eg immigration .....no one dares bring it up properly, when they do they are jumped on as racist....(personnally I don't believe in border controls....we are expats and have happily lived all over and think others should be able too, so don't all judge me for bringing up the subject of immigration).......but the subject isn't talked about properly.....ie what we want the world to look like going forward.

Rant over

The reason Lib dems have suffered is because they are put in the position of supporting a government with tories who their voters are opposed to. They only got 10% of seats, so they have actually leveraged their seats well (increase in personal tax allowance, increased school funding for children in poverty, stalling and protecting NHS from privatisation, defending human rights, etc).

They weren't exactly dragged kicking and screaming No! into "the position of supporting a government with Tories who their voters are opposed to" though, were they? Maybe they should have thought of their voters this time last year. Because I don't know IRL a single Lib voter who would ever do it again.

I'm struck by how 3 different posters (one of them twice) have said that anyone who basically doesn't agree with their world view is "naive". Bless your patronising little socks!

I think you'll find the Conservatives are willing to discuss immigration - in fact one of their 2005 election posters read - " it's not racist to impose limits on immigration" ( but of course the loony left think it is, or was, as Labour have since admitted they 'got it wrong' over immigration - hmm )

And now in power the Tories are getting to grips with the problem -

HTH

My husband has lost his job directly as a result of the Tory spending cuts. I am struggling with my own work as a freelancer. People pay late ever morre frequently.

It is not the fault of the Tories! It was Labour: bribing large sections of the electorate with cash handouts. People are very naive. Someone had to pay the bill. It is our family that is doing so. But Labour is to blame.

I called Nick Clegg a prostitute on here at the time of the general election and was told that I was wrong, naive etc etc. Nice to see a few more people agreeing now!

Clegg has committed personal and political suicide, as far as I can see. I can't see him managing the full term of this govt but I doubt anybody else would want his job right now, either.

Tories - I think they wrongly believe that hard work makes people rich (rather than good jobs, luck, education, & rich family), therefore they look up to the rich, and believe that punishing the poor will make them work harder.

They believe that because rich people have money, if you have more rich people you will have a richer country (rather than a larger divide between rich and poor). They believe that giving businesses more freedom will create wealth (rather than exploitation).
They believe in appeasing the rich and powerful, rather than doing the right thing for the greatest good.

Of course all of these things have been shown to be untrue on a national scale and internationally. But another feature of toryism is a disregard of intellectual analysis and fact (it doesnt agree with their ideology) and a preference for PR, media manipulation, point scoring and personal attacks.

No no, the reason for the large deficit was the banks, that we had to bail out, remember?! Before that the deficit was kept below the sensible limit of 3% GDP.

HHL you're so right. There seems to be a Tory view that rich people are rich because they have worked hard and therefore deserve to be rich and that (with a few exceptions like people with disabilities) poor people are poor because they don't work as hard as rich people.

Of course some well-off people did work very hard to earn their money but lots didn't, and are well off because they were lucky enough to be born rich. And working all the hours god sends will never make you rich in a minimum wage job.

As for nick Clegg, I think paddy ashdown had it right when he said that many ld voters felt betrayed.

Lib dems have done really well in my area, have gained seats and possibly control of the council. They were mostly against the tories.

Yup. Us Tories believe hard work brings prosperity. My family is suffering a big setback at the moment owing to redundancy but I have no doubt that we will bounce back, because we have a work ethic and a strong belief in the strength of the family. We aren't rich but we are enterprising and have grit. That's why we are Tories, we don't believe that the State owes us a living. We will sort ourselves out, thanks. We will do any kind of work to keep our house and standard of living, and we do not whinge like Socialists.

New Wave: "In truth there was no need for Clegg to enter a coalition with any other party, he should have let the Tories form a minority government."

But I don't think you are right. If I recall correctly there was vast concern this time last year about they way international money markets would react to a minority Gov't in Britain, and a very real risk that a government seen as unstable of ineffectual would result in British debt attracting even higher interest rates and other countries/banks refusing to lend to the UK. I really believe that it was in order to avoid this that the LDs went into coalition. And then went with the Tories because, as they had said throughout the election campaign, they would support the party with the largest mandate.

I truly and honestly believe that the LDs effectively fell on their sword for what they believed was the greater good. Of course, only time will tell if it really was the greater good - and a dead body with a sword sticking through it is still dead, regardless of good intentions....

so many typos - very sorry

The Tories reward hard work and view success as something to be proud of - ( shocking isn't it ) - labour on the other hand want to keep as many people as possible dependant on the state, as that's a guaranteed tick in their box -
'the welfare generation' is not something Labour supporters should be patting themselves on the back for -

"The Tories reward hard work and view success as something to be proud of"

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I guess it depends what you are working hard towards and how you view success.

Yes, the tories rewarded the hard work of my Dad and countless other working class men by decimating their industries in the 80's and offering feck all in it's place.

He died age 60, still working 2 jobs for minimum wage.

The lib Dems got the kicking they deserved. Clegg is a laughing stock, the man should get a grip, 'he cries to music' yea that went down well in the Gorbals! Why is anyone voting labour? They bankrupt the country and nearly ruined it.
The Lib Dems are fnished and as I've said before Cameron will distance himself from his 'european' chum Cleggers, and forge ahead without him, trying to win an outright victory at the next election. Many on this site were singing Clegg's praises at the last election, where are they now? The public are a fickle lot. Hey?

HHL you put it so articulately re Tory thinking.

Hard work is hardly the preserve of conservatives, OR the wealthy. In fact, hard work is absolutely NOT what some wealthy people do, or did!

NO party is getting to grips with Britain as it is now, where the jobs are going to come from, how people should be housed, cared for, educated, how we can face the challenges of the future. That's what really worries me.

wubbly :(

hhlimbo. After the economy immigration was the hottest topic at the last election. The Mrs. Duffy effect brought down labour, who wanted against the wishes of the people of this country mass immigration. The liberals who also do not want to control immigration have suffered a similiar effect. If politicians want to run around with their tales between their legs on the issue, they to wil be booted out. Cameron has talked the talk on mass immigration, I have yet to see him walk the walk.

Wook. Completely agree with your third paragraph.

I think the Tory policies of the 1980s created way more welfare dependency than labour ever did. There are whole communities where an entire generation of men were put onto incapacity benefit when the factory, steelworks, shipyard, mine was shut down.

And what wubbly said.

So true Scarletbanner, and three million unemployed was the 'price worth paying', apparently. What a heavy price.

Plenty of people in London and other large cities have never done a days work in their lives - nothing to do with mine closures.